Power pack suggestions please

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hello

I am getting Very close to laying my N scale track and need to start thinking about a quality powerpack soon.

I would like something that is both DC and DCC compatible for the day I decide to upgrade.

Momentum is a feature that is very important to me as I liked the one my brother made when we were young.

Also I like the idea of having a wireless remote even though it’s only a 4 by 8 layout. I like to move around instead of being held to one place. Whether one comes with a wireless remote or it can be added, either way is fine.

I’m a firm believer in “you get what you pay for” and like doing things right the first time around. Money is not an issue within reason. I would imagine a 4 by 8 layout doesn’t demand a club layout super system? Unless I’m told differently. The normal operations of this layout will only be one to two operators.

Thanks for all your advice in advance as it is appreciated.

TF

2

About the only one that does both DC and DCC is the MRC Tech 6, and it had wired handhelds as an option, not wireless.

To get all of that, you should probably consider a DCC system with wireless throttles, and connect it to the layout via a DPDT center off toggle, the other side of which connects to a decent DC pack. Run one or the other. Or just go all DCC - you’ll get wireless handhelds, momentum you can configure individually for each loco, not just a generic momentum, and easy multi train operation.

–Randy

3

You are kinda in a place of decision. Being you are where you are I would proubly get DCC ready engines (with the plug installed) and an MRC power pack and when you want to make the switch, you are set up. I will say DCC is more fussy but I do love the sound.

4

We just went through this decision tree while building our first layout starting 8 months ago.

One key decision to make is: multiple operators or always just one? Multiple operators using DC only means multiple power packs. By the time you buy three good DC powerpacks you’ll quickly realize why DCC was invented, it had to be. Actually, multiple operator capability is the single most important factor in this decision tree. It just gets very expensive very quickly to have this capability in DC only mode.

DCC will not run DC locomotives. Some say it will but it won’t really. If you want to be able to run either type then you need at least one DC powerpack, which is why MRC built the Tech 6. But, there are other considerations like accessory power. The wall wart solution works but all DC only powerpacks also deliver this capability. Wall warts are cheap but they don’t also run DC only locomotives. Buying at least one DC powerpack makes sense in that light.

It is very important to remember that most if not all current DCC locomotives work very well in DC mode, including some pre-programmed sound which is actually pretty good. Somewhat ironically, considering how revolutionary DCC was when NMRA issued their standards, now it is modern DC that is sort of backwards compatible.

Another really big factor is the age of the locomotives you might like to run. There are a lot of really lovely used DC only locomotives out there, at least in HO anyway. I have not looked at the N scale situation for used locomotives. Not so long ago DCC locomotives ran poorly on DC controlled track, sometimes quite poorly. That has been my experience anyway. Several used DC locomotives I bought that had DCC conversions already made have been reconverted by me to DC only with blanking plugs (sometimes called jumper or dummy plugs). DCC decoders have been and continue to be improved as well as miniaturized. Used DCC ready locomotives seem to run quite well in DC only mode after being conver

5

Hi Randy, rrebell, …and Mike (Mike, you tied my head in knots)[:-^][(-D][swg]

I only have three old school Bachmann locomotives that are DC only that I will want to run on occasion.

Everything else I have is DCC ready Plug and Play, already is DCC, and 4 are the hybrids DC/DCC.

I have a boatload of loco’s. Kato, Atlas and Spectrum only.

So I would have to buy both a DCC system and a separate power pack for the Bachman’s if I want all the features I listed?

TF

6

Since the track is technically powerd the same in dcc and dc, I have a plug on the end of my bus wires and a connector on my Railpower 1300. When I move to DCC I will put a plug on that as well so I can switch between the both. Saw a layout set up like this in milwaukee exept they had a togle switch to change between DCC and DC and it worked flawlessly. I picked up my 1300 off ebay last week for $25 with shipping and it works awesome. Very smooth opperation and really smooth at low speeds

7

For DC/DCC operation then a Tech 6 is the way to go. If you wish to run two DCC trains then you must have the hand held throttle.

I have a Tech 6 and hand held throttle and I simply love it.

8

So you just unplug and replug between packs Ringo.

Reading too fast, sorry, missed the switch part. This could be a consideration. Are you Wireless?

Thanks

TF

9

I see you agree with Randy on the Tech 6 Larry. It may look like I just have to put up with wires on two handheld throttles.

I hate wires but maybe I can live with that.

Thanks

TF

10

Okay, Tech 6 it is.

Unless anybody has something that’ll do the same thing wireless.

Thanks for the help guys[Y]

TF

11

TF: When my friend Randy and I built his N scale NORFOLK SOUTHERN layout, which was started in 1992, he quickly decided it would be “upgraded” to DCC in the future.

So, his layout started DC, because all his equipment was DC, but he intended to buy new equipment that was DCC, and upgrade some older equipment with DCC decoders, then switch the layout to DCC when the equipment was ready.

Is this similar to your plan?

For DC operation he chose Hogger power packs, which were great.

To convert to DCC, we wired the layout with small rotary cab selector switches. When the switch to DCC happened, we set all the cab selectors to “1”, removed them from the panels and tied them behind the fascia, and put plastic 3/16" plugs in the holes where the switches were.

The DCC system was hooked to the input from cab “1”, and all was fine.

So… my advice would be to do something similar if you are planning to switch to DCC in the future. Run the layout as DC until you are ready, then buy a good DCC system and switch over in one sweep.

Just make sure your wiring for DC is easy to convert to DCC and it will be easy.

My next layout will not be able to switch to DCC. I have made to deicision to use polarity reversing power routing turnouts, and these just do not work well with DCC operation.

You can buy a decent MRC Tech II 1500 used, and that is a perfect power pack for N scale until you purchase a DCC system.

-Kevin

12

I wouldn’t worry about the Power Pack problem! I started out using DC in 1951 up to today. In 2006 I decided to go with DCC and bought a MRC Prodigy Advance ². I used a 12 volt DPDT relay to switch my layout track from DC Power Pack to DCC Controller automatically. When I turn on my MRC Sound & Power 7000 DC Power Pack the Accessory output pulls in the relay switches my layout from the DCC Controller to the DC Power Pack.

I can run in either DC or DCC mode without any problems with this configuration. The two systems are never connected at the same time. I have over 70 locomotives and only 13 decoders, all locomotives are wired for DCC Ready. I have a couple of tenders with sound decoders and speakers that I can easily swap to any of my steam locomotives by simply plugging them into the locomotive.

I have a pair of E7s with sound decoders that are semi removable, meaning I could easily remove the decoders but because I run them quite often I leave them as is. The rest of my diesel fleet are easily made DCC operational by plugging in a decoder.

I can run any of my locomotives on my layout

13

Years ago, when I was just starting with a few boxes of trains that I’d carried around from attic to basement for over 30 years, I started building a layout, intending to start with DC and then move to DCC at some time in the future. I had a small financial windfall, and just used it to buy a DCC system and a decoder.

I already had a bit of track laid, so I installed the decoder, a simple DH123, and replaced the power pack with the DCC station. By the end of the evening, I put the old DC power pack on a shelf and never connected it to the tracks again.

If you plan to go to DCC in the near future, do it right away. Otherwise you’ll agonize about the money, time and effort you have in your DC system.

14

We built a DC track in part because it is recommended you run track feeder wires connected to your bus every so often anyway. No drawback to isolating each section of track fed by a pair of feeder wires. We wired it so it is easily convertible to a two bus wire system should we ever decide to drop any DC only capability. That takes just one bus wire strung alongside the one set of spaghetti junction mess of block wires. Our main bus wire is white or red (an AC electrician guy chose the white colour for the “hot” side) and is essentially a common rail but with isolated feeder drop wires instead of relying on the nickel silver rail as the main conductor. Our black wire is 16 gauge and is just strung, not yet connected.

In the meantime we use 12 blocks connected through Atlas handy “selector” units. The MRC 780 dual throttle can power all blocks. The MRC 760 powers only the yard, engine yard and mainline connector track which doubles as a yard lead track. I would have connected the 760 as a full third cab but for the life of me I cannot figure out how to wire the three reversing loops each of which we control with the equally handy Atlas Controllers. Just btw, the newer line of Atlas components made in China are not as well made as the made in the USA versions now discontinued. We can very easily plug the Tech 6 in place of one throttle, probably the B side of the 780 BUT if you do be VERY careful to remove ALL your DC powered locomotives off any track connected to the Tech 6 before you power it up. If you forget and select Dual mode every DC only locomotive will start to hum and that’s not good.

Despite having a Tech 6 I would not use that solution if the only DC I wanted to run were some older Bachmanns. I’d use a MRC 1300 series and also use that as the AC accessory supply.

Really, DCC is the way to go for your current setup and any future acquisitions.

The Tech 6 is really great but only within its specific design limitations

15

I have a HO layout that is small but it is DCC. I started out DC with a MRC 780 dual powerpack but when I got my first sound DCC loco I quickly found that while it ran, control wasn’t great and I couldn’t programme anything, let alone access sound functions. I switched to DCC using a simple MRC Prodigy Express. It has worked great for the past 12 years. It has the controller on a wire and I don’t find it a problem. I do have the yard isolated with a ‘block’ so I can cut the power to standing locos and not have sound going on all and it is great if I want to programme on the main.

I also have an N scale layout built on a door. Based on my experience with DCC on HO, I decided to go DCC with the N scale. I’m using a Bachmann wireless set up that is actually made by ESU. My experience with DCC on N scale has only been so-so. The DCC wireless system works fine but I find the N scale locos tend to be finicky about power with DCC in that the track must be very clean as the least little thing will cause them to stall. Also installing decoders can be a challenge. With diesels it is usually just a board swap but still they are very small. Steam is a whole different issue. Some are easy, some are very hard. The worst was a PK2 0-8-0 that had a plug in the tender except no one makes a board small enough to ‘plug and play’. I did do it much to the surprise of the LHS owner when I sold it there on consignment. She sold it in a day as her DCC installer won’t do this loco.

I don’t have sound in any N scale locos and if I had to do it again I would just go DC and use blocks. I only run one loco at a time anyway. DCC just wasn’t worth the hassle and cost at least for me. For HO I think it is absolutely great. Hope that makes sense.

CN Charlie

16

Evening

Just got done with my day and finished reading all my replies here. I’d like to thank each and every one of you for your advice and experience.

I must admit I’ve never been as good understanding the technical end of this kinda stuff as my brother is but I’m working on it.

From every thing I read here I think I will continue with my plan to lay track with blocks and choose one of the power packs suggested. Maybe I’ll try the Kato sound system as an add on for now.

I’m very open minded to upgrading to DCC in the future when I learn a better understanding for it.

The only stone left unturned in my mind yet. Someone suggested just make sure my wiring is DCC ready for when I upgrade in the future. I’m quite lost with that one.

Thanks for all the help here gentleman, appreciated[Y]

TF

17

If you know DCC is a possibility in the future, it is pretty straightforward to build a DC layout that can easily be changed to DCC with few, if any, wiring modifications.

You just have to think it into the construction.

DO you presently have a Kato DC pack? If so, that should be just fine. I have one I use with my Unitrack, and it works very nicely.

-Kevin

18

No, I need a decent power pack yesterday Kevin. The one I have is a hunk of junk I’ve been using to test Loco’s when I buy them. That’s one of the reasons I’m inquiring today.

That Kato sound system is just something I heard about from someone. He couldn’t say enough about it. It’s just an add-on for sound that hooks up to any DC power pack and senses what you’re doing to make the appropriate sounds.

TF

19

This is the one that I would recommend for a right-away DC power pack, the MRC Tech-2 model 1500.

All ebay precautions are in effect! Buyer beware.

If you need a new one, I would honestly go with the Kato power pack.

-Kevin

20

I would opt for on of the DCC systems and you will be glad you did.