I have a question about traffic into and out of Indianapolis pre-Conrail split (aka, before I became a Hoosier). Any help given would be much appreciated. I am primarily concerned with CSX’s access to Indianapolis pre-Conrail Split but would like to know of all lines into and out of the City. I have always believed Indianapolis’ lack of major rivers and centralized location gave it a uniquely-common disposition.
Here is a line-by-line study that I would like answers to. If you know of other lines, please list them and tell me what you know. Starting at the Avon Yard on the West side of the City:
(1) CSX has its Indianapolis - St. Louis line. I know from experience that this line was Conrail.
----I think it was a former NYC/Big Four line, is this correct?
----Where did the Pennsy St. Louis line leave the City?
(2) Going clockwise, there once was a B&O line coming in at the 9 o’clock position of the City. This line went west out of Indianapolis, to Decatur Illinois, went on to Springfield, and eventually terminated in Bushnell Illinois along the river. The line was ripped out West of Decatur, and riped out from the Indiana border to Indianapolis. I am told CSX now uses the old C&EI line at the Indiana border to route traffic from this line on the line mentioned in # 1 and routes it right into Avon Yard.
-----Did CSX have this arrangement with Conrail before the Conrail split? When was the B&O/CSX line riped out from the Indiana border to Indianapolis?
(3) Continuing clockwise, at the 10 o’clock position, CSX has a line that goes through Brownsburg and on to Crawfordsville, where it connects to the old Monon line. This is the Amtrak route.
----I know this line belonged to Conrail before CSX. But what was the line before it was Conrail. I know it wasn’t Monon. It terminates where it connects to the Monon in Crawfordsville–that could not have always been the case. Where did the line go from Craw
Hi Gabe.
The PRR line to St. Louis went south of Avon through Bridgeport, Greencastle and Terre Haute. The Greencastle-Terre Haute portion was the Terre Haute, Brazil and Eastern for a time after Conrail sold it. The Cardinal uses this line heading west from Indy before heading north and crossing the former Big Four line. The Bridgeport-Terre Haute line is now abandoned. This link shows the line turning north and crossing the Big Four east of Avon. http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=13&Z=16&X=350&Y=2749&W=1&qs=|indianapolis||
Hi Gabe.
The PRR line to St. Louis went south of Avon through Bridgeport, Greencastle and Terre Haute. The Greencastle-Terre Haute portion was the Terre Haute, Brazil and Eastern for a time after Conrail sold it. The Cardinal uses this line heading west from Indy before heading north and crossing the former Big Four line. The Bridgeport-Terre Haute line is now abandoned. This link shows the line turning north and crossing the Big Four east of Avon. http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=13&Z=16&X=350&Y=2749&W=1&qs=|indianapolis||
Would you prefer I backed off on this thread ?
[quote]
No, quite the contrary. There is no such thing as too much information, so long as it is relevant.
Moreover, I would like to know more about the Terre Haute, Brazil, and Eastern. When did it go under? When were the tracks ripped out? Did it go all the way to an Indianapolis connection?
The THB&E (sold by Conrail 1987) only went from the former Monon crossing at Limedale (just south of Greencastle) to Terre Haute. CSX bought it to link the former Monon and C&EI routes, and then abandoned it (1992) after getting trackage rights on the Conrail line between the same points.
The line to Crawfordsville is the former Peoria & Eastern, which was part of the New York Central. It formerly ran all the way to Peoria.
The Monon line out of Indianapolis is not a well-engineered route and did miss the larger cities, which may explain why Amtrak didn’t use it. It connected with the ex-Monon line to Louisville at Monon. The Monon branch to Michigan City split off at this point. Monon’s own line to Chicago operated on trackage rights over Chicago & Western Indiana (a terminal road jointly owned by Monon, Erie, Wabash, Grand Trunk Western & C&EI) north of State Line.
When you re-enter, you do it in a big way. As you know I am a transplanted Hoosier, and never really lived in Indy, but I can probably get this discussion going.
Starting at the 9:00 area. PC inherited both the NYC and PRR lines between Indy and St. Louis. Segments of both lines were used to form the current CSX line. According to my 1941 Official Indiana Highway Map, both lines roughly parallelled each other between Indy and Terre Haute, with both serving the college town of Greencastle, along with the Monon. Slightly off topic…that would have been a great college to attend in the 50’s or even the mid 60’s.
The NYC line stayed to the north between Indy and Terre Haute. I believe that line is exclusively used in todays CSX operations. When lines were rationalized in the 70’s, the NYC line was the obvious choice, since it had Big Four Yard at Avon.
At Terre Haute, the NYC line headed northwest to Paris, then Mattoon, Pana, Litchfield and entered St. Louis from the Northeast. Mileage from Terre Haute to St. Louis was 180.7. As a side note, my aunt lived in Mattoon and during the 70’s I would watch and photograph PC freights on that line. Sometime during the late 70’s the traffic was moved to the shorter ex PRR line between Terre Haute and St. Louis.
That line was only 168 miles and ran pretty straight. It was also double track. Nate currently dispatches that line. Today it is single track with CTC. Also as a side, many days were spent in the mid to late 70’s at Effingham on that line taking in the IC/PC action.
So, Conrail ended up with a line from Indy to St. Louis that included the ex NYC yard and track to Terre Haute and then continued to St. Louis.
Important junctions on that line included Effingham where a daily train was interchanged with the IC. Just guessing, but it was probably an Indy - Memphis train. Greyhound would probably know better.
this is going to be a fun topic. Time to leave Montana and the Milwaukee Road for a bit…although the Milwaukee made it to Indiana.
Gabe, if you dont have it, pickup Railroads in Indiana by Richard Simons and Francis Parker. It is a very complete history of railroads in Indiana with corporate ownership of lines.
There also is a similar book out on the Passenger Trains of Indiana. Dont have it but checked it out at the public library.
One clarification though, I grew up 10 miles from Litchfiled, IL, and am all too familiar with the NYC line there. It actually wasn’t the main. The NYC main went through Hillsboro, more or less directly to St. Louis. At Hilsboro, a line branched off to pick up the small towns of Litchfield, Gillespie, Dorechester, and Brighton. To my knowledge, this never was the main. Most of it is gone today, but I have gone over its remains on many of occassion, and it could not have been the main.
You have an uncanny familiarity of small colleges of Indiana. I recently visited the 5.89% grade near Hanover, what a roller coaster! It prompted me to post a thread of “all we have lost” as rail fans. It still makes me sad to think I couldn’t have seen a train run that grade just once. It is everything I really like about railroading. Alas.
Greencastle still is interesting in my opinion. I like to see tracks–even aging ones–going every which way in a small town (Terre Haute is also good for that). But you are right, it would have been more interesting in the 50s.
There were 16 lines radiating from the City.
The New York Central had 6 (5 Big Four and the P&E). Most important was the Cleveland to St. Louis mainline (#1 and #8), followed by the Cincinnati to Chicago route (#5 and #11), the Peoria and Eastern (#3) and a secondary line through Newcastle to Columbus (#8B)
The Pennsylvania had 5 routes. The Pittsburgh to St. Louis mainline was their most important as well (#1A and #9). Another PRR line swung north on the west side of the city and went through Frankfort and Logansport (#4). The other PRR lines went south to Louisville (#12) and Vincennes (#14).
All 11 of these lines went to Penn Central, giving them control of the City.
The Baltimore and Ohio passed through on their Cincinnati to Springfield line (#2 and #10).
Illinois Central (#13), the Monon (#6) and the Nickel Plate (#7) were the other three routes. The Erie Railroad used rights over the B&O (#10).
Yes
The PRR line parallel to the NYC, about 2 to 5 miles to the south, all of the way to Terre Haute. Conrail abandoned the “Limedale Secondary” from mile 7 at Bridgeport to mile 40 at Limedale during 1982.
[quote]
QUOTE: (2) Going clockwise, there once was a B&O line coming in at