Billbarman, the #614 came with a number of different tenders and, in addition to the cataloged sets, it was included in a variety of uncataloged sets as well so the fact that the tender differs from the one in my picture and the one in Northwoods catalog shot isn’t too surprising.
Northwoods, thanks for the compliment concerning my collection but before you start imagining that my collection occupies a small warehouse I should tell you that, based on your pictures, your collection is much larger than mine. Most of what I’ve posted is stored in a small filing box in the library and, prior to my decision to start scanning them into the computer, they existed only as strips of negative film. Early on, I was fascinated by the similarities and differences of the prewar toy train offerings from the various manufacturers and I take delight in seeing how different manufacturers treat the same subject (hence the post on the IC cars).
Since collecting to the degree of my interest was simply out of the question (and since at that time no references worthy of the name existed) what I did was figure out a simple photographic setup I could take anywhere and whenever the occasion arose I would get permission to take pictures of trains in various collections. I’ve changed the setup over the years which is why the backgrounds of the various pictures differ. Of the group of pictures so far only the Flyer station, the Blue Bird, and the #16 set are mine. The single biggest area of actual collection of real objects would be the Flyer train stations.
The way that Flyer numbered their equipment is at times confusing. They frequently gave a locomotive one number, a tender another number, and when the two were combined there was another number for both of them together. The number 4692 actually refers only to the locomotive that you have pictured earlier on the thread. The combination of your engine and tender is known as the 4694. The casting for the locomotive is one that Flyer developed. There is a second earlier locomotive with the same number(4692). It was originally a casting developed and marketed by Ives, but when Lionel and American Flyer divided Ives up in the bankruptcy Flyer got ownership of the Ives boiler casting.
In the 1931 catalog your (grandfather’s) engine was only used in one set, The Flying Colonel. Do you still have any of the cars that came with the set? You have not mentioned what kind of cars you do have.
Here is a picture of the page that shows your engine from the 1931 catalog.
Thank you for all of the exceptional pictures, information, and especially the history of AF.
Many of us older guys were introduced to toy trains 45-60 years ago by fathers whose roots in toy trains and AF went back to their childhoods. Unfortunately, none of my father’s American Flyers made it through the Depression years, starting in 1929, because they were sold or traded off for things we may take for granted, food or an unpaid bill. I suspect many of this forum’s viewers wish they had their fathers’ AFs too. All my father could pass on to me from his childhood was a maroon AF water tower.
Based on the high number of views this thread has received, one can only assume that most train hobbyists truly enjoy and appreciate AF, even if they don’t own any or are not into prewar for their own collections.
Northwoods, Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. The tender i have is numbered 4693. I do not have the cars that are in the picture, Flying Colonel. Wish i did!! The cars i have are pictured in the 1485 mountaineer. I was told there is a 4694, but it’s a little different. That does look it, tried to blow it up a little but got blurry. Finding parts or info on this engine is close to impossible. Thanks again.
I had to chuckle at your comment about needing a small warehouse to store your collection. My wife has made that comment to me on more than one occasion. As I have posted on another thread, I would like to have a train building or specific larger room to use as a layout room and a museum of sorts. My ideal room would be a bonus room above the garage, or a garage built with something on the scale of a small apartment on the second floor.
I like the idea of having a collection in a small space the way that you do. At least you know where each example is, and you can do the comparisons much more easily. As I look at the ever increasing number of boxes in which I have my collection stored I have often thought that it would have been much easier and a saving of space to collect stamps. But then I look at the items I have and I think again how much I have enjoyed running and “playing” with my trains. I hope you will continue to share your collection with us and do more comparisons.
Thank you for the kind words. I am glad that you are enjoying this thread. I originally started it because I enjoy seeing Flyer items, and hearing the stories that accompany them for many people. I have been having a great time posting and seeing what other folks have to post.
I have some wonderful memories of being with my father and brother on the living room floor playing with trains, particularly at Christmas time. One of the items that has come down to me from my father is also a Flyer water tank. Is this similar to your water tank?
Thanks, Northwoods…your water tower sure looks like it, except if I recall, mine is missing the spigot. It’s packed away. Now you’ve got me going. Got any info on it?
Some people unfamiliar with Wisconsin don’t realize just how beautiful and unspoiled it is. I spent many childhood summers in a town called Rib Lake (sign at the time said population 356), about 60 miles North and a little West of you off Route 13 North, the place my Grandparents called home. They had a cottage on Spirit Lake, but we’d go swimming in Harper Lake because it had a “beach” and a small grill, convenience store. For back roads, gravel was the paving material of choice, and the road crews had to keep grading it and dumping oil on it to keep the dust down. Had relatives in Minoqua and Lake Crawlingstone (sp?) too which if I recall is straight North of you off Route 51.
Talking about trains, my sisters and I would take the train home to Chicago out of Wausau.
If you came back to Wisconsin for another visit I think you would find that it is still pretty much the same. The places you mention are still very much summer destinations, especially for folks from Illinois. I think you would also find that there are still roads in some areas that are the same as you remember them. The depots that you took the trains from are still here, one of course is the emblem for Wausau Insurance, and Walthers just reproduced it in HO as a kit. Sadly, the passenger trains that you remember riding to Chicago no longer exist. You might even have ridden the Northwoods Hiawatha.
I do have some information on your water tank. Let me quote from the Greenberg guide to Wide Gauge:
“About 1922 American Flyer offered their first water tank, the 2020, for O Gauge trains. This same style water tank with the addition of a light in 1934, was sold until 1940 (as the #215). The plain water tower is quite common, however it is often missing the water spout, which simply hooked onto the tank itself… Ives catalogued an identical water tank from 1923 through 1929 with the Ives name as thier number 89… It could have been built by American Flyer or a common vendor for both companies.” I have also seen pictures of at two examples of the tank with “Mack Junction” printed on it. I don’t have any other information about that variation.
My example is missing a ladder, but it is obviously an earlier version because it has no light. Variations do exist with ladders coming in green, yellow, red and black.
Its time to go rummaging around for the tower and display it somewhere as a memory of your childhood.
I find that I have a pile of what I think is pre-war American Flyer track. There are 12 curves (a complete circle) that seem to be about O40 and 9 10-inch straights. They are very similar to Lionel O31, except that the track pins are pointed, like nailheads. I also have 2 Lionel O31 curves and 9 10-inch Lionel straights. There is not much rust. I will send the lot to anyone who can use it, for the cost of shipping.
Is this where you got your Northwoods Flyer name? Again, thanks to you and all for your American Flyer blast-through-the-past pictures and posts. Keep them coming.
Jack
The Northwoods Flyer name comes partly from the legacy of the Northwoods Hiawatha, which ran on the Milwaukee Road on the routes that you describe in your post, and partly from the fact that everything from about Stevens Point north in Wisconsin is referred to as the Northwoods. With my love of Flyer I thought it was a natural choice.
Diabolical plot…Hmmm, I have never considered that as an attribute, but if it brings more folks into the fold, then I’m all for it. Of course you know that you won’t be able to stop with just the water tower now. If you have read ivesboy’s post on his family trains you will definitely be inspired. Yes, I guess it is a diabloical plot. [}:)].
To follow up a bit on the water tank. I actually have two free standing tanks, one of them is also missing the spout. I am not sure if anyone has reproduced them yet, but I bet there would be a market for them considering the number of them that are missing.
And mine has the yellow ladder.
The 215 water tank was also used on a larger accessory - The 235 Water Tank Set. It was sold from 1933 through 1935. Mounted on a 15 1/2" sheet metal base are a lighted lithographed shanty, a manually operated semaphore, and a red water tank with the typical black support structure and black spout with a counterweight. I
Flyers first offering in the world of streamlined steam was the ill fated No. 9915 in 1935. The catalog described the engine as being a “New York Central type”. Many collectors refer to the cast aluminum engine-tender combination as the Aeolus because of a resemblance to the CB&Q’s engine of that name and some claim the Q’s engine was the inspiration for 9915. The only problem with this is that the Q didn’t build Aeolus until 1937. The reality is that Flyer tried to make an engine with characteristics of the two best know streamlined engines of the day - the Hiawatha and the Commodore Vanderbilt. The set 1325-RCT was a sales failure and was catalogued for one year only. Like the Lionel Girl’s Train of 1957 what was 1935’s trash is now 2008’s treasure and this engine and passenger set is one of the most sought after of the Flyer prewar offerings.
The second streamlined steam engine made its appearance in the back pages of the same 1935 catalog. It too was describes as an NYC engine. It is also referred to as the “Minnehaha” because it was part of that particular set. The electrically powered version is usually lithoed in orange and silver and the clock work version sports a reddish/rose and silver livery. This train was made from 1
Excellent pictures as usual. You have managed to post all of the streamlined sets that I don’t own yet. Well at least I have some things to look for. Flyer certainly did offer something for everyone. Thanks too for the earlier post on Hummer. I have resisted that part of Flyer production for now. But some day I will open the collection to those items too I suppose.
My offering this time is for Flyer’s O gauge tank cars. Tank cars were first introduced in American Flyer’s catalogs around 1910. Several different styles, in varying lengths were made through the years. 5 1/2" cars were made from 1910 to about 1914, 6 1/2" cars were made in Lithographed and Enameled versions, 9 1/2" cars were also made in Lithographed and Enameled versions.
The Northwoods Flyer collection contains the following 6 1/2" versions
This is the 3018 from 1932
When I was ready to post these pictures I noticed that I had another version as well
The tank car on the right is also a 3018 but from 1930-1931. Notice the difference in the trucks and that the tank supports are different colors. Truck stlyes help to date the years of production as Fly
[#welcome] to the forum and to this thread. I posted some pictures of the Comet earlier in the thread but I will post them again here. I assume that you are are refering to the Comet made by Flyer in the Pre War era. That version runs on three rail track and is O gauge. There is an American Flyer train by Gilbert produced in the '50’s named and labled the Comet too, but that version is made of plastic and is S-gauge.
This is the O gauge version.
Edit: This is the S Gauge Comet by Gilbert American Flyer
The other pictures are posted in this thread for the date 1/30/08.
The following is a quote from Greenberg’s Guide to American Flyer O Gauge Trains by Alan R. Schuweiler and published by Kalmbach:
"Produced in 1936, the Comet set was offered in a seperate low-end train brochure, which was not dated,… The electric sets in this brochure were called Champion sets. The inventory of sets may have been sold for several years after that year by retailers and wholesalers. Like many other lower-priced sets of this era, it never appeared in an Amercian Flyer consumer catalog and no catalog numbers for the individual items have been discovered.
The Comet has a strong resemblance to the lithographed Burlington Zephyr, and both trains are sheet metal throughout. However, most but not all Burlington coaches ha
These cars were first shown in the 1919 catalog. They consisted of a tank car, a sand car (gondola), a boxcar (automobile car), and a caboose and in various forms they ran through 1935. The sand car is shown in the earlier post on Flyer’s lithoed gondolas.
The tank car came in gray with a single style of lettering. The the shade does vary but that is nothing more than simple lot-to-lot paint variation.
The earliest version of the automobile car was lithoed in yellow with white lettering.
The automobile car also came in red and white and then, in the late 1920’s in yellow with black lettering.
I got a 790 Trainarama last Friday and it is really beautiful. Do you have the assembly instructions? Many of the pieces have not even been creased yet and no instructions were with it and I don’t wanr to bend something in the wrong direction.
Congratulations on the new aquisition. Unfortunately my Trainorama did not come with the instruction sheets. I have had mine together, and managed to do it just by matching the numbered and lettered tabs and slots to each other. I did see a Trainorama on ebay a short time ago that did include the instruction sheets and the seller claimed that it have never been assembled. Amazingly that one sold for close to $325.00.
Take some pictures when you do get yours assembled, and you will be amazed how nicely it compliments PreWar Flyer items [;)]
