Here are some examples of the 9 1/2" enameled tank cars. They were cataloged from 1928-1939. This car constitutes a small collection in its own right. By my count in the Greenberg book there are at least 20 variations. These variations occur with changes in the color of the tank, the color of the frame and the difference in trucks.
These three cars all have the same frames and trucks (known as type VIII). The third one has been altered by a previous owner who must have taken a tin snips to the truck to give it the look of a step in the middle of the truck.
This version is from 1938 which you can tell by the trucks and more obviously by the sheet metal knuckle “Curly Q” coupler. This one is not listed in the Greenberg Guide, so I guess this makes 21 variations.
Yes I saw that auction and felt pleased I was able to get mine for under $200. It is in very good condition and many of the pieces have not been used so they are like new. When I get a few days off I plan on putting it together and for now put it on the layout on a shelf extension in the back. This will less evasive than taking up existing track and fixtures.
Hi, all. I am a new guy here having just discovered this place. These pictures are wonderful considering my Dad and I have been trying to fix my Mom’s AF-O loco literally for as long as I can remember. Problem is, I have never been able to identify the loco to be able to identify proper parts. Here’s my story:
Mom got this set when she was a small kid, we figure around '36 to '39. (She was born in '32.) She wanted a toy train but her parents didn’t have the money for one, and “girls didn’t get trains.” Her uncle was an electrician and had a small electrical supply store. He got her a train set for Christmas, making her as happy as she could be. (We don’t know if it was a catalogue set or maybe some off set or salesman sample of some kind.) Fast forward to the early 70’s: Dad collects Lionel, and he, I, and my older brother fix many of them. However, Mom’s engine has a bad case of explodo-wheel on the main drivers. Dad scours train shows, can’t find wheels. I take up the cause in the early 90’s and I can’t find wheels. A collective 40 year search has turned up nothing, despite searches, catalogs, and oodles of emails and 'net searches. The engine has no ID number that I can find. I’ll describe what I know.
Engine is a tinplate O-gauge 2-4-2, black with copper piping and trim. Tender is a small square type. The drivers are 12 open spoke, black, die cast, with no steel tires. All 4 are different. The rear pair, one geared and one plain, have a raised post to attach drive rods and valve rod cranks. The post is tapped and the very top of it is squared to engage the crank. The front pair, again one geared and one plain, have no boss as no rods connect to them. The motor has 2 pickup rollers and both axles are driven. The engine wheels and tender (not 100% certain on the ten
The #614 had a number of different tenders and came with different connecting rod arrangements. One of the variations is that shown in the catalog that Northwoods posted earlier. The wheels you describe are those of the #614 in the picture on page 5 of this thread…and now the bad news - no one makes these wheels for running. Trickel catalogs these wheels but, as far as I know, they are cosmetic only.
Description
Catalog ID AO21 1 1/8" Dia. 12 spokes painted black for short wheel base motors used in many small sheet metal, cast iron, and tin litho streamliners.
A - Front, with gear, no crank
B - Rear, with gear, and crank
C - Front without gear, and crank
D - Rear, without gear and crank
The address given in the catalog (and the one I used to order some parts last year) is
Thanks for posting the pictures of the prototype of the Comet. I appreciate seeing what the “real thing” looked like. I assume that you are a member of the Historical Society. Do any parts of the Comet still exist? For those of us who are fans of the Milwaukee Road here in the midwest all we have are pictures of the motive power for the Hiawatha, although passenger cars do exist, and fans of the CB&Q and The Zephyer can see that beauty in Chicago.
Production of the Comet also points out how American Flyer stayed on the cutting edge of marketing, trying to be current and attract consumers in by making items that were in the news and a part of everyday life.
Thank you for the prompt reply. I am not surprised that these particular wheels are not made at all, considering how long I have been looking for them. I’ll look in to the Trickel wheels, but if they don’t run I would not be interested. The idler gear between the wheels and the motor spur could be die cast. I think it has a patent number stamped or cast into the face of it. It is in good condition as I recall. Looks like I need to find a matching motor with good wheels, or I am back to having to cut my own mold and try to cast the wheels myself. I could maybe pull that off, though I’ve never done anything quite like it before. Seems like really doing it the hard way.
Hunting for intact wheels is going to be a real snark hunt. It wouldn’t be a case of finding a motor with intact wheels it would be a case of finding multiple motors with at least one intact wheel which you could salvage. You mentioned cutting your own mold - if you have that capability there is an alternative. Several years ago a friend of mine purchased a set of the cosmetic wheels, carefully machined off the tire portion, and used what was left to make patterns for brass castings for the centers. He machined the centers and then turned separate tire rims and mounted them in the traditional manner (heat the rim, drop it over the center, let cool). His little #614 ran like a swiss watch.
Yes Northwoods, I am a member of the “New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association” www.nhrhta.org . They publish a very fine (collectible) magazine 4 times a year, the “Shoreliner”. In a 1982 issue (Vol.13 issue 1) it had the complete story of the building, running and scraping of the “Comet”. Another place to look for New Haven Railroad information is the University of Connecticut Thomas Dodd Research Center. http://railroads.uconn.edu/locomotives/
The all Aluminum “Comet” was built in 1935 by the Goodyear Zeppelin Company in Akron, Ohio. Designed to run between Boston and Providence, covering the 44 miles in 44 minutes, a cruise speed of 100 mph, it made 6 round trips a day, 6 days a week. The “Comet” was a 3 car train, a Power Unit/48 seat coach on the east end named “Boston”, another Power Unit/48 seat coach on the west end named “Providence”, and a 64 seat center coach. As World War II passenger traffic increased, she proved to have too few seats and was removed from Main Line Service in 1943. She spent her last 9 years on Branch Line and Commuter Service. Her precious Aluminum was too valuable during the Korean War, the “Comet” was scraped in July 1952 replaced by Budd RDC trains. As a child, I rode the “Comet” many times as my mother would make a quick shopping trip to Boston. ($1.75 round trip, children half fare)
P.S. – The Boston and Maine “Flying Yankee” (built by BUDD, a twin to the Zepher) is being restored to operating condition with funding by the State of New Hampshire. Target to enter Tourist Service is 2010. www.flyingyankee.com
[#welcome], Welcome to the thread. I hope we are providing some helpful information. I wonder if you would consider purchasing a similar Type XX engine to use until you can get your mom’s original piece up and running. One can never have too many trains you know. [:)]
Here is another aspect of Flyer production and its association with the Comet. The A.C. Gilbert company also produced a train called the Comet in S gauge. It was cataloged from 1953-1956, and while it looks nothing like the real comet it is a streamliner (diesel however) and maintains the blue and silver colors of the PreWar Comet. It came in a 4 unit set with the PA, combine, vista dome and observation.
Thanks for the hospitality. This single thread has provided more real answers than I have been able to find to date. You have helped more than you can realize. (Not the first time I have found excellent tutoring on a message board.) The bit about machining new wheels from the dress wheels sounds interesting, but the wheels I need do not have steel tires on them. They are plain die cast. I might be able to cut a mold. I am a mechanical engineer with a strange bend toward hands-on work. (Most engineers I know don’t like to get dirt under their nails, but I build cars for fun in the summer, trains and clocks in winter.) I can certainly blueprint the four wheels, as I have just enough intact to get the critical dimensions. I also do some hobby machine shop work and have a small lathe and mill in my basement. I have never made anything as detailed as a geared wheel, but I have made small precision bushings to fix some cuckoo clocks, so I’m game to try. I would have to grind some specific tool bits- difficult but not impossible. Maybe I could convince Bowser or MEW to tool up these wheels, rather than trying to literally “reinvent the wheel.” I can’t possibly be the only person who would like a set.
I realize the wheels are a single piece. I was just describing how one of my friends got around the problem. When he blackened the brass wheel centers they were a visually perfect match for the originals. He felt that if he made the entire wheel out of brass the wear on the softer brass would have probably worn them out in fairly short order. As for others wanting the wheels - you bet. The problem is that there aren’t nearly as many of us desiring these wheels as their there are those desiring the Lionel counterparts.
Years ago there was a supplier of prewar Flyer parts who did make high pressure diecast wheels for some of the Flyer engines (but not this one). I purchased the wheels I needed as did others but our purchases weren’t even close to being sufficient. It was my understanding that he didn’t even break even on his expenses.
As a strictly postwar guy who reads this thread regularly, one thing that strikes me is that there is very little (or any?) cosmetic restoration among all the prewar AF pictures. No?
Cosmetic restoration? Do you mean repaints? No, no repaints. Everything I’ve photographed has been original condition. In the case of litho - repainting would be a real challenge. I understand there are a handful of people who will do such work and for something extremely rare I suppose it might be worthwhile but the only work of that type I’ve ever seen was on a single piece of Marklin litho from the pre WWI period and the asking price for the finished piece was more than my annual train budget for the next 4 years. The fact is that it takes a lot of abuse to really chew up litho. The enamel on the roof and base will scratch/peel/flake long before the litho will go.
Thank you for all the kind comments about the thread. I started it because I enjoy American Flyer trains, and I look for any opportunity to read about them or see examples. In my opinion part of the enjoyment of collecting anything is to be able to share the collection, the information about the items, and the stories of how I aquired them. Besides, I consider it a form of therapy. I’m glad that others are enjoying it too, and I appreciate all of the contributions and questions that folks are posting. I have come to appeciate that everyone has their own approach to collecting and standards that that they go by. Its nice to know that others are out there pursuing their collection. mersenne6 has been a valuable help in providing pictures of items that I have only read about. One day I think I want to own his picture collection. [;)]
Jack,
As far as restorations, I have resisted adding any of them to my collection, although there are a few items that have had roofs restored. Repainting is much easier to do on the enameled items than on some of the others. Rust is a devestating factor and while I have a few basket cases, I usually have them only for parts. I would qualify most of my collection as operator quality or a bit better. As others have said, they are toys and had a very important part to play in the life of a child at some time. I like to think that my collection is preserving a part of history, and I am only a steward of them for right now.
A day when I can play with trains or engage in my hobby, or communicate with others who share the interest is a very good day.
I’ll keep posting as long as folks continue to be interested and want to participate. I have plenty of items to go in PreWar, and then we can start in S gauge. [:)]
I have really enjoyed looking at the prewar AF, and looking forward to the “rest of the story”. I will have a few pics to contribute, especially if I can get my @##$% camera working. Here is a teaser
The big 9 1/2 inch litho gondolas of the American Flyer lineup were first offered in the 1925 catalog. They were sold separately and they were also included in two sets - one in 1925 and one in 1926. Their last year for sale was 1927. In 1928 they, along with the rest of the lithoed 9 1/2 series, were replaced with enameled cars with brass plates. Unlike the enameled series, Flyer never made a matching 9 1/2 inch litho caboose. It was indeed a case of “the little red- 6 1/2 inch - caboose behind (the large lithoed car) train.”
The four gondolas were
Pennsylvania
Union Pacific
New York Central
and IC
Of the group, the rose colored IC is my favorite.
I’m glad a number of you are enjoying this thread that Northwoods started. I also hope you are saving the text and pictures in this thread to you own computers for future reference.
The Miner’s Work Train set (No. 5300), as you already know, was cataloged by Flyer in 1953 and 1954 and didn’t change at all between the two years. It really is a fun little set. The handcar all by itself is a lot of fun to watch. Those two guys pumping like crazy to fly around the track always makes me smile. On the ocassions that I have run the hand car at shows or times I have displayed the trains for local historical societies it has always been a real crowd pleaser. I usually run it in front of a steamer and the kids just love watching the engine overtaking the handcar. It reminds me of some old movie with Abbott and Costello.
Here are some pictures of the page from the 1953 catalog
Photos NHRHTA