This may sound a little bit out of character, but, why, oh, why do we all seem to want to follow these eastern RR’s? I’m a grainger RR fan. Conrail, Wabash (small RR, yes, I do follow the flag once in a while), central of Georgia, B&O, WM, ???
Jimmy
Jimmy,
Perhaps it’s because, since the US started in the east and gradually moved west, so the majority of RRs started in the east then slowly moved their way west. I also think modelers model what they model primarily for one or all of the following reasons:
- It’s what they grew up with
- It’s what they are familiar with
- It’s what appeals to them
The highest concentration of people in the US live east of the Mississipi River and on the west coast. If that and the above statement is accurate then the majority of modelers will model eastern RRs.
My [2c]…FWIW
Tom
There’s also SOU, ACL, SAL, SCL, N&W, RF&P, RDG. But don’t feel bad as a number of us wonder why Athearn and Walthers won’t produce more eastern and southeastern model locomotives that have been suggested for years, but yet will produce locos and cars owned by 1 or 2 roads. Is it “Market Research” or “Western bias” due to company location? As a friend of mine stated recently “manufacturer watching what rolls along on the tracks nearby”. I may be mistaken, but do wonder at times.
How many modelers are actually going to purchase undecorated “Hiawatha” passenger cars? Yet, how many would purchase an FL9?
There’s PLENTY of SF, UP, SP, RG, WP, etc around as well. For a ‘preponderence’ of eastern roads I usually have to look to the OTHER model railroad magazine.
–Randy
Jimmy, you nailed it.
I don’t. From 1958 to the present I model Santa Fe, with one brief excursion into freelance which I quickly got tired of and went back to Santa Fe. No eastern roads for me.
Bob
Where do you see this preponderance of Eastern railroads?
If I e.g. have a look at the Model Railroader track plan database for 2011, I see one eastern road (“Green Mountain Division of the Boston Maine” in the April issue), and then the other layouts are Midwestern or western - some names:
“Mineral Point Northern” (Wisconsin) and “Santa Alicia, Harrytown & Pacific RR” (Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, and Union Pacific in the west), “Chicago and Northwestern, Christie Division”, “Rock Island Lines”, “Red Rock Green River” (Freelanced Colorado), “Iron Ridge & Mayville Ry” (Milwaukee Road, rural Wisconsin), “Burlington Northern 34th Subdivision”, “Rio Grande Southern”, “Ashland & Southern” (freelanced Ohio), “Milwaukee, Racine and Troy”.
Smile,
Stein
[[:)]
hdd25rl, i"m not quite sure I could go along with your premise. Except for Pennsy and the Central most of the recent “wish list” postings would indicate that the strongest interest is for Uncle John (ATSF), Onion Specific, Suffering Pathetic, the Hill Lines (GN; NP; The “Q”). Now not all of this interest is for locomotives but most “wish list” requests for rolling stock go around “Why hasn"t Atlas offered their (throw something in here) lettered for CRIP or MOPAC or C&NW etc etc etc.”
Actually I am of the opinion that it is the eastern roads being slighted by the manufacturers.
Seems to me the most popular railroad might be a narrow gauge one west of the Mighty M.
The UP is a western road largely, and it seems to have solid following. Soeborg anyone?
SP?
C&NW?
Tons of Warbonnet stuff on the market in plastic, metal, and brass.
BLI has a ATSF Northern on their refurbished site as of dinner time today, and at least two 2-10-2’s.
Santa Fe All The Way !
The “center of population” in the United States is in Ohio, last I looked. So, on the premise of “model what you know,” the East wins.
As railroads developed, we started with many small lines serving limited areas of the East. So, there were a lot of different lines. Once we branched out beyond the Mighty Mississippi, there were only a few “mega-railroads” going west. I suspect that a review of all the fallen flags would show that a great majority of them ran primarily in the East.
Keep those fallen flags flying on your layouts, friends.
To the question of how many modelers chose to model eastern vs western roads, I don’t think we have any way to know.
But the manufactruring bias is clearly in favor of western roads with only one exception - the Pennsylvania.
It is easy for a manufacturer making an F7 or a USRA steamer to include all the road names that are approperate to that prototype.
But look at the specialized, prototype specific models:
Con Cor did the Burlington Zypher but not the Flying Yankee
We have our chioce of GS4’s and Daylight cars but not one mass produced acurate B&O name train and its matching locos.
We have our chioce of UP Big Boys and Challengers but no B&O EM1 or EL locos? Only one mass produced C&O H8 - now out of production?
And the south east roads are really shuned - only in the pre Walthers years of Proto2000 was there any attempt to offer some south east roads on diesel locos.
Sure, we have N&W “J”'s, the Y6b and the Class A, while long lists of other notable east coast steam has never been produced or only offered a few times in brass over a 40-50 year span of time.
But from where I sit there is plenty of UP, ATSF, Milwaulkee, SP, CB&Q - and lots of it is very road specific.
2-10-4’s and 2-12-4’s but no B&O 2-10-2 S1a?
Only a few “famous” steam locos from the NYC, but what about the Southern, RF&P, ACL, Seaboard, Wabash, and others.
Right now, or even in the last 10 years, the only B&O steam other than brass has been “also ran by other roads” stuff like USRA Mikes. Yet they where the nations first railroad - and a very big one at one point - Baltimore to Cincinnati to Chicago to New York is no small area. And the B&O had a large and interesting fleet of of steam - like their home built 4-8-2’s that performed so well they never even thought about a 4-8-4 or 2-8-4.
I can buy Milwaukee proto specific box cars and cabooses mass produced by the sub class, but only one mas
…Probably the same number that had purchased Proto 1000 DL-109. They hit a nerve there… …Especially in the northeast! To me, it is no small wonder that, whatever company had modelled the GG-1 always sold it well-unless it was a piece of junk to begin with!
If you really want to get into techs, the New Haven (not meaning to thrash a dead horse) was probably the most technologically forward railroad of the twentieth century. Check out the advances [it] made during that time. I suspect that if not for the rapacious investors, and dumb-fumbled greedy management bent upon only making a profit onlyfor themselves, as well as the "Riders-be-damned attitude, the New Haven might have been alive and well today. References to same might be found in the writings of the likes of Shaumberg, Lynch, et al.
EF-3 Yellowjacket
Hi!
I tend to disagree with the “we all” part of your statement. I suspect that the reason for so much intererest in those eastern roads is the fact that there are an awful lot of MRs in the eastern part of our country.
Personally, the RRs west of Indiana are my prime area of interest - especially the IC and ATSF, but I sure do enjoy all the others. I think a lot of that is the romance of “going west”, as well as the “non big city” atmosphere.
I guess that’s one of the reasons I prefer Model Railroader, for it tends to reflect the RRs “west of Indiana”, whereas RMC tends to reflect “east of Illinois”.
Hey, they are all RRs, and I’ve yet to find a RR I didn’t like!
Perception is an interesting thing.
The east still contains billions of acres that are not “big city”, in fact acres that are still undeveloped! I only live 30 minutes from Baltimore but the tallest building in the biggest town in our county is only 5 stories high, most are only two stories high. While we are now somewhat “in the bosom of suburbia”, there are farms, forest and open country just 10 minutes away.
The ex B&O and PRR lines to NY go right by not far from here, mostly tree lined right of way except where they emerge to cross rivers that feed the Chesapeake Bay.
Nothing about the C&O bringing coal to the Chesapeake involves a big city until you get to the Chesapeake Bay.
LA and Chicago are bigger than any city here in the Mid Atlantic, and Dallas and St Louis are no small potatoes either.
Not everyone sees “romance” in “going west”. I’ve been west, and while it was interesting, neither the climate or the scenery has ever drawn me back.
Now the Shenendoah Valley in Virginia - that draws me back.
I knew there was some reason I prefered Railroad Model Craftsman so much, thanks for clearing that up.
And gee wi
Back in the early days of Model Railroader and Trains magazines – apart from complains that there was “too much Milwaukee stuff” (which Al Kalmbach simply explained was due to the ease and low cost of looking out the window or down the street for trains – there were complaints along these same lines. Too much east coast – based on the fact that there was more than one NYC Hudson and more than one Pennsy K4 available. One explanation offered was that those roads were not just east coast, but extended well into the middle west and even to a certain extent down south.
In a sense the popularity of the Santa Fe is similar - yes it is west coast but it is also south west and middle west.
Dave Nelson
When I was old enough for HO Scale awareness in the late 1950s – About all you could find in the local hobby shop were Mantua or Varney kits, ATSF diesels (with gumband-driven drives), those new Athearn black+orange Southern Pacific SW1500 (geared-drive) diesels, tiny Plymouth industrial switchers, or quite expensive (look-alike) black steamers with some road name in white letters on the tender.
Everyday, Pennsy E7s, F7s, and Alco PA/FAs, thunderd through the town’s valley on its 12’+ elevated 4-track mainline, but; just try to find a PRR tuscan-brown diesel in the local hobby shop instead of the silver Santa Fe war-bonnet.
If you are asking about what prototypes get produced instead of who models what prototypes, then the obvious driver is the location of the manufacturer/importer. Especially before widespread information availability on the Internet, a manufacturer’s/importer’s location tended to drive what prototypes they would make/have made.
Irv Athearn lived in Southern California. AT&SF and SP prototypes were readily available nearby to photograph and measure. Small wonder Athearn passenger cars are based on Santa Fe. When Bowser moved from California to Pennsylvania, they brought out a NYC Pacific. And followed later with the acquisition of Penn Line (virtually all PRR). Bowser’s first forays into plastic car production were PRR hoppers and cabooses. Roundhouse, also being located in the West, favored SP prototypes.
Even Lionel followed this model. The post-war steam line of the NY/NJ-based company was built to have NYC or PRR looks or actual prototypes, with the N&W J being the big exception. Lionel’s first diesel F was not a war bonnet, but an NYC version. American Flyer (post war) loved New Haven, and featured other NE railroads.
Bill Ryan of PFM in Washington loved to make geared steam models that were familiar to Pacific Northwest logging.
Even today, Blackstone in Durango, Colorado models the D&RGW. Trout Creek Engineering in Buena Vista, Colorado likes C&S prototypes. Silver Crash Car Works (in Boulder, CO) features Colorado Midland and other railroads with Colorado connections.
just my thoughts…
Fred W
Ok, I’m going to reply to my own post. Oh, Gee, I see we all like Conrail, Pennsy, Central of Georgia, Southern RR, Erie, Lackawana (Erie/Lackawana), B&O, OOPS, They’re all GONE now, people. Let’s get real and Route Rock! Yep, she’s gone now, too, but not on my layout. MN Commercial now rules.(Almost all ALCO).
Gracias a Dios y, Felices Pascuas!