This might sound like something for TRAINZ Magazine, but I want to find out which railroad you all think won in the field of preservation.
I PERSONALLY feel that the PRR wins because you just have to look at Horseshoe curve and the Pennsylvania State Railroad Museum.
So, which railroad do you think won with preservation, and why?
D&RGW narrow gauge because it is still running.
charlie
Virginia and Truckee.
Numerous original locomotives preserved (a few still operational) at the NV railroad museum in Carson City.
The railroad itself is being progressively `un-abandoned’ from Virginia City to Carson City, mostly on original right-of-way (and through original tunnels.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Gidday,
(1) The damage that is done to preservation societies by the political infighting by the “Glory Seekers”, within the membership, usually to the determent of the “Doers”. I’ve also noticed that the “Glory Seekers” generally make up the majority of the membership and are never to be seen when actual work is to be done!
(2) The continual growth of “OSH” (Occupational Health and Safety), which I suspect is prevalent throughout the Western World, and its increasing restrictions and impositions on what can or can’t be done.
(3) MONEY!!. Don’t know if this is just a New Zealand trait, but am always disappointed in the amount of notoriously stingy “Railfans” who are “to busy” taking photos / videos to put their hands in their wallets to help support the object of their admiration!
So while I don’t wish to rain on any ones parade, (or perhaps I’m missing the point), I personally think for the above reasons that we should be giving all those “Loonies” who by their very perservance, as part of any group or organisation that preserves “Our” heritage,a rather large HURRAH!!
Thereby we all win. I’ Now get off my [soapbox]
Ex-New Zealand Government Railway Ja class 4-8-2 locomotive 1250 of The Railway Enthusiasts Society at the Glenbrook Vintage Railway, Auckland, New Zealand.
Cheers,The Bear.
And then there is Strasburg, still running under a common carrier charter, formed in the 1830’s, running one of the few complete steam shops left, and who has preserved a buch of vintage equipment in their shops, for themselves and for other lines and museums all over the country.
The UP had to send drivers for that Northern of theirs all the way to Strasburg to have them turned - last 80" plus wheel lathe still in operation in North America.
And they created the full size Thomas - bringing trains to the attention of several more generations of young people.
Sheldon
There was a contest?
Somebody won?
Some railroads never received the application form…
Bill
I’d say the winner would be British Rail. The U.K. did a much better job in preserving their equipment than did the U.S. In many cases, their steam engines are still being used in what amounts to ‘regular service’, with many others preserved in musuems. Compare that to the U.S., where all the New York Central Hudsons, Milwaukee Road Hiawatha 4-4-2 engines, etc. etc. were scrapped…as was Penn Station in New York City.
I guess so, its a much smaller country with what amounts to a public owned rail system and no stock holders to answer to.
Private industry in this country has to make money first, preserve its history second - and that view is coming from someone in the business of helping people preserve old houses.
Sheldon
The success of rail preservation in Britain has little to do with ownership of the rail system, and everything to do with individual effort. Many of the locomotives operating on heritage lines throughout the country were bought from one particular scrapyard by volunteer societies, occasionally individuals, and restored to operation as fundraising allowed. Sounds to me just like the situation in North America. After the official end of steam in 1968, for a number of years the rail network refused to even consider main line steam operation. Still sounds like this side of the Atlantic. The heritage railways had to buy their lines and rights of way, and continue to maintain them just like over here.
The major difference in Britiain is that being a rail enthusiast is a much more accepted as a normal hobby. Here, to be a railfan means defying social pressure to conform, especially in one’s younger days, so fewer enter the hobby.
I will have to second the D&RGW narrow gauge. There was never any real effective shutdown of the original road! Two working railroads were formed from some of its trackage. The Durango and Silverton and the Toltec and Cumbres. These are working roads that carry passengers daily, year round and not during some tiny, narrow window of a tourist season. Plus, they make a profit! This is something the original D&RGW had trouble doing. Both roads use only original D&RGW steam 3-foot gauge mikados built between 1903 and 1935.
The Durango roundhouse houses the largest collection of live, working steam engines in the US and they are in the process of rebuilding others. They have full capability of repairing what they own on-site! they also have a ton of rolling stock in its original, all wood construction along with interesting varnish, both old and new. These are not small little 10 mile tourist runarounds, but original trackage going between some of their original towns. They also hold “goose fests” where the bulk of the original, restored Rio Grande Southern’s galloping geese are run on their tracks. For those in disbelief checkout…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1kvCKT9bl4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlhY0J5-ftg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha59KFvCQUY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8udh_iwJ1M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAQ-txvlpSQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7lwXtVro6c
You will flip out over the action and the beauty of these steam only, still opertional roads. In the above
Well what about the UP which not only keeps two preserved steam locomotives in operation (and other preserved steam in good shape), not to mention wonderful passenger cars in its business train, but has preserved its paint and lettering scheme over the many years, has an observation tower for its yard, and in other ways seems like the one large railroad that not only has a clear link to its original heritage but pays more than lip service to honoring it?
Dave Nelson
[quote user=“cx500”]
ATLANTIC CENTRAL:
wjstix:
I’d say the winner would be British Rail. The U.K. did a much better job in preserving their equipment than did the U.S. In many cases, their steam engines are still being used in what amounts to ‘regular service’, with many others preserved in musuems. Compare that to the U.S., where all the New York Central Hudsons, Milwaukee Road Hiawatha 4-4-2 engines, etc. etc. were scrapped…as was Penn Station in New York City.
I guess so, its a much smaller country with what amounts to a public owned rail system and no stock holders to answer to.
Private industry in this country has to make money first, preserve its history second - and that view is coming from someone in the business of helping people preserve old houses.
Sheldon
The success of rail preservation in Britain has little to do with ownership of the rail system, and everything to do with individual effort. Many of the locomotives operating on heritage lines throughout the country were bought from one particular scrapyard by volunteer societies, occasionally individuals, and restored to operation as fundraising allowed. Sounds to me just like the situation in North America. After the official end of steam in 1968, for a number of years the rail network refused to even consider main line steam operation. Still sounds like this side of the Atlantic. The heritage railways had to buy their lines and rights of way, and continue to maintain them just like over here.
The major difference in Britiain is that being a rail enthusiast is a much more accepted as a normal ho
Sadly, it is not the Maryland and Pennsylvania RR.
Paul
And the RR museum of PA is right across the street
heduled steamers
Going out there tomorrow
Make about 15-20 trips a year
Combine back roads bicycling with trips to the RR
Never get enough
Have some pics in my sig just click
Since we’ve branched out overseas, take a look at the former Japan National Railways and its fragmented, privatized successors. There are stuffed and mounted steam locomotives all over, and at least one operational example of almost every major class. The best represented, operationally, are the 2-6-4T C11 class - at last count there are five available for tourist season operation.
The official end of steam operation was in 1975 - by which time the preservation movement was in full swing.
As far as preserving really old locos, Benkei (aka the Porter Mogul, everybody’s favorite cheap brass loco) is preserved under cover. It’s 139 years old, and looks as if it was just unloaded from the ship that delivered it.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I live a little over an hour from Strasburg, but I am unable to say the Railroaders Museum of PA is a “win”. They have been generously provided with a large collection from many donors–yet the funds needed to get them under a roof have never fully materialized and some of the last examples of their types sit rotting into the grass outside, with parts thrown on top the tenders in somewhat haphazard fashion–some of the most visible engines along the highway appear to be in the worst condition. It makes me very sad every time I pass by–which is often–and see naked rotting corpses of steam engines now missing their boiler jacketing due to recent asbestos removal. If that is how steam and early diesel, electric, or other power is to be preserved for future generations, then I cannot help but think it would have been far better to scrap them than have them sit out in the wet Pennsylvania weather as rotting corpses.
At least in the drier regions of the U.S. where equipment is forced, again for monetary reasons, to sit outside, it isn’t in a condition where the rain and rust are destroying it. There are other museums that periodically move some of the engines to keep the bearings free in the event a future day comes that someone has the means and talent to make them run again.
I know the Railroaders Museum of PA does rotate some engines on display, and tries to generally keep the very best or most historically significant ones inside–but it is sad watching the unfortunate others turn into a glorified scrap yard before my eyes.
It would be better to ship them off to some dry location in the Southwest than to keep them here in the wet weather.
To me, the winners are “Steamtown” thanks to the past generous government funding and most particularly Union Pacific, as the UP has managed to keep the memories of both steam and early diesel/late passenger era still moving and funded enough to continue for awhile longer.&nbs
The vast majority of British locomotives were privately restored to operating condition and very little, if any government funds were used. “Tornado”, a Peppercorn A1 4-6-2 was scratchbuilt in 1:1 scale under private auspices ( http://www.a1steam.com/ ), being completed in 2008. AFAIK, it’s the only standard gauge steam locomotive built since the Chinese quit building steam locomotives in the late 80’s.
The Brits do a first-class job of running mainline steam excursions, some for considerable distances (trust me on this, I’ve been on several). All of these are privately funded. These are not all one-at-a-time excurnsions, either. If you check the schedule here http://www.uksteam.info/tours/trs12.htm , you’ll notice that, on many days, there are multiple steam runs on different lines. That only accounts for mainline steam. There are a plethora of preserved lines where one can
OK, so I stand corrected on several points. I will be the first to admit that trains outside of the US hold very little interest for me, heck, trains west of the Mississippi hold only limited interest for me - with one exception - SP steam.
But the fact remains England is a much smaller country with a more concentrated population, a more concentrated rail history, and therefor a more concentrated and more effective presevation movement based on the reports in this thread - and some very quick research I did on the web.
If you took all the rail presevation money and efforts in the US, and lumped them together, consolidating and coordinating their efforts, the results might be similar - BUT - the history of North American railroad is much broader and more diverse than England or Europe due to the broader geographic and demographic scope of this country. Even with some level of government regulation, railroads in this counrty were vastly different based on geography and purpose.
Preserving such a varied and diverse history is difficult at best. Simply deciding what is most important is an impossible task that will never be agreed on. I think it would have been more important to have saved a B&O EM-1 rather than so many BIg Boys. But it is what it is.
And it is all about money - so unless you have a hundred million or two you would like to pitch in, you should respect the efforts of all who work hard to save their little piece of history.
To the guy who complained about the stuff outdoors at the museum in Strasburg, I don’t want that stuff hauled off to Arizona or somewhere. I live near Strasburg as well - PRR locos belong here - in the east, were they worked day to day. Would I like them to do more sure, but I don’t have that 200 million to give them.
Sheldon
OK, so I stand corrected on several points. I will be the first to admit that trains outside of the US hold very little interest for me, heck, trains west of the Mississippi hold only limited interest for me - with one exception - SP steam.
But the fact remains England is a much smaller country with a more concentrated population, a more concentrated rail history, and therefor a more concentrated and more effective presevation movement based on the reports in this thread - and some very quick research I did on the web.
If you took all the rail presevation money and efforts in the US, and lumped them together, consolidating and coordinating their efforts, the results might be similar - BUT - the history of North American railroad is much broader and more diverse than England or Europe due to the broader geographic and demographic scope of this country. Even with some level of government regulation, railroads in this counrty were vastly different based on geography and purpose.
Preserving such a varied and diverse history is difficult at best. Simply deciding what is most important is an impossible task that will never be agreed on. I think it would have been more important to have saved a B&O EM-1 rather than so many BIg Boys. But it is what it is.
And it is all about money - so unless you have a hundred million or two you would like to pitch in, you should respect the efforts of all who work hard to save their little piece of history.
To the guy who complained about the stuff outdoors at the museum in Strasburg, I don’t want that stuff hauled off to Arizona or somewhere. I live near Strasburg as well - PRR locos belong here - in the east, were they worked day to day. Would I like them to do more sure, but I don’t have that 200 million to give them.
Sheldon
[quote user=“UP 4-12-2”]
I live a little over an hour from Strasburg, but I am unable to say the Railroaders Museum of PA is a “win”. They have been generously provided with a large collection from many donors–yet the funds needed to get them under a roof have never fully materialized and some of the last examples of their types sit rotting into the grass outside, with parts thrown on top the tenders in somewhat haphazard fashion–some of the most visible engines along the highway appear to be in the worst condition. It makes me very sad every time I pass by–which is often–and see naked rotting corpses of steam engines now missing their boiler jacketing due to recent asbestos removal. If that is how steam and early diesel, electric, or other power is to be preserved for future generations, then I cannot help but think it would have been far better to scrap them than have them sit out in the wet Pennsylvania weather as rotting corpses.
At least in the drier regions of the U.S. where equipment is forced, again for monetary reasons, to sit outside, it isn’t in a condition where the rain and rust are destroying it. There are other museums that periodically move some of the engines to keep the bearings free in the event a future day comes that someone has the means and talent to make them run again.
I know the Railroaders Museum of PA does rotate some engines on display, and tries to generally keep the very best or most historically significant ones inside–but it is sad watching the unfortunate others turn into a glorified scrap yard before my eyes.
It would be better to ship them off to some dry location in the Southwest than to keep them here in the wet weather.
To me, the winners are “Steamtown” thanks to the past generous government funding and most particularly Union Pacific, as the UP has managed to keep the memories of both steam and early diesel/late passenger era still moving and funded enough t