Just got email and street prive for DCC and sound vs DCC ready is less than $60.
I thnk that trend will continue. I am sort of reminded that when stereo records (LPs) were new the stereo LP cost $1 or more over the price of the monaural version. And sometimes the stereo version had less music. Maybe they cost more to make but I doubt it
But it did not take long for the price to even out, and then the parallel monaural versions became hard and eventually impossible to find.
Dave Nelson
Yeah, I hear you but DCC sound has been out for a long time, maybe the dual decoders are accually starting to work on the higher end models, I know they done on the low end stuff (tried it just to see if it worked).
Moore’s law could explain part of the trend, the theory that the power of electronics rises, the size gets smaller and the cost of electronics gets exponentially cheaper over the years. Recently Moore’s law has begun to slow down for computers with graphics being hit the most dramatically by it (most obvious in real time rendering situations like video games were graphic cards evolution has begun to hit a ceiling where its struggling to advance as rapidly, hence why the differences between say a Xbox One/Xbox Series X|S or PS4/PS5 are not as big as previous generational advances in graphics, while high end PC gaming has begun a new focus on frame rate speed instead of sheer graphics power).
However if we consider model railroading as a more niche market than say video game graphics cards, its likely there was a delay in catching up the computer tech of DCC to the current power and cost capabilities of modern computers. So as the tech improves and model railroading catches up, the DCC tech enjoys the delayed benefits of Moore’s law, improved power and lower costs. If it follows Moore’s law starting to hit a ceiling eventually the cost benefit will stop, but by that point it will be likely a DCC installation will be really cheap. Then the only market indicator will be demand, will a company pay $70 for DCC when the computer chip to install it was $5 to purchase? Or will consumer prices drop to match manufacturing cost as more model railroaders choose DCC as their standard and DC loses its customer base? There is obviously a break even analysis equation dictating the market that we the consumer are not privy to. Only time will tell if price drops continue.
It will be like the auto industry. It can be cheaper to build all the units “the same” and just disable features customers won’t pay extra for.
As for undecorated models costing more than ready painted, at some point demand for DCC ready will be so low it may actually cost more to delete the decoder and speaker. We already see DCC with sound as standard. Nobody sells new DCC locomotives with no sound, surely?
Tesla is a case in point. Some of their options are already installed and you pay extra to have them activated. Pretty cynical marketing in that case.
For model locomotives I doubt that will become as cynical. I do wonder why DCC ready doesn’t include a wired in speaker though. The design will have the space for it and the incremental cost of assembling all the chassis with a speaker must already be tiny, possibly already zero or slightly negative.
What engine was that with sound for $60. The Athearn, Rapido, ScaleTrains, Atlas and Intermountain are nothing near that cheap. I’m not seeing that downward trend. If anything the cost is creeping up with time.
Read my wording real carefull, it talks about the street price difference in cost between DCC ready and DCC and sound, not the whole engine. But now that you ask you couls get a DCC and sound engine from a major store for $60, a Bachmann DCC and sound S4, they are now $10 more but you can still get steam for $100. I bought two of the deisels and two of the steam (bought one of each and liked them so much I bought the second batch).
Read the title of your first post/topic title real carefully - quoted above. A reader would be lead to believe the point of the topic is quite different.
Anyway, no surprise - Bachmann, a brand I’ve had little or no interest in. What about difference between dcc ready and dcc/sound for Genesis, Intermountain, ScaleTrains, Rapido, Atlas? That analysis I’d be more interested in. Otherwise nothing of consequence here. Moving along…
I have BLI and MTH also. Guess it depends on what you run. What brought this on is an Athean Genesis Sd70ACU, DCC ready is $212.99 and DCC and sound is $268.99.
This very modest price difference is what decided me to buy only the DCC version. Even if you don’t like the sound just switch it off or unplug the speaker (you know you want to splice a quick connect into those soldered on speaker wires anyway).
If you really don’t like DCC just fit a dummy plug and leave the decoder alone.
Someday you may want to trade or sell that locomotive. DC only will probably not be available at all in the not too distant future.
Not so simple there; some engines are not easily disassembled at all and if you attempt it there is a reasonable probability of damaging the model.
Also, I have seen some large variations on the price of plain dc versus dcc and sound equipped engines. There are still plenty of engines out there where the price difference is closer to $100 than $60. It appears the OP was fortunate to receive a good deal on the price.
It also depends upon what the roadnames are. The scarcer roadnames tend to sell closer to MRSP and then the price difference is higher.
It is true that less and less plain dc models are being produced by the importers, and I think it won’t be that long before more manufacturers offer full dcc/sound only. When that happens will be a sad day for some of us.
Well, this thread certainly makes me a “happy camper”. [:D]
I read the information regarding “Moore’s Law” on the web and I can see where in many consumer related scenarios, it is applicable (although it has been gradual in this hobby).
PRR8529, just my “screwy” opinion, but I don’t think that the model railroad manufacturers will eventually offer DCC sound only. They’re fully aware that companies, such as: ESU, Soundtraxx, Zimo, TCS, and Digitrax are entrenched in the market.
Wouldn’t it be more realistic to say that in the future we will likely be seeing Full DCC/Sound units and DCC Ready units that include the space for a speaker(s). By producing DCC Sound Ready units, the model manufacturers and the DCC Sound manufacturers will actually be helping each other, with both, enjoying their shares of customers (I’ll be one of them).
Knowing what I know about your era and road, I can understand why Bachmann is a brand you don’t have much interest in.
I don’t have much interest in Bachmann diesels, except the GE 44 tonner and 70 tonner.
For me it is Atlas that is not on my radar. They make great locos, but over the last 20 years they have only made a limited selection of locos in my era, most of which I was able to get from elsewhere, Proto, Athearn, etc, usually for less money, often better detail, often in my desired undecorated, and generally without preordering.
Scale Trains - not one loco I want, DC, DCC or otherwise.
Genesis and Intermountain, I have lots of F units from both, but not anything else.
Rapido - well they canceled the one loco I wanted to buy from them - undecorated DC ALCO PA’s. I even had my preorder in…
Most of my Diesel fleet is pre Walthers Proto2000, all without DCC.
But back to Bachmann, I have about 35 Bachmann/Spectrum steam locos and I am happy with every one. Many being prototypes never produced by anyone else (except brass), and most of the steam
Glad that Bachmann was mentioned.
I wasn’t a fan of Bachmann, based on past experiences with the “toy” versions. Yet, just as with Life Like, I’m grateful that they produced models that I was very interested in.
I regretted passing up the BLI GG1’s when they hit the market. When production stopped, these units were going for the $300+ range on ebay. When Bachmann produced the G’s, I took a chance and purchased a DCC-Sound equpped Pennsy Brunswick Green unit with the single yellow stripe version. It was a VERY pleasant surprise seeing (and hearing) how smoothly and quietly this “brick heavy” unit ran. The onboard Soundtraxx sound is the “Econmai” (I think). I was fine with that since the prototype G’s were VERY quiet at idle and low speeds. The Leslie A-200 “honker” horn sounds good and features a small amount of reverb. The short horn blast produces a nice “Yonnk!” tail-off note. Bachmann did screw up on the Keystone herald (the PRR letters should be white, not yellow), but overall I’m happy with the unit and will leave the sound system as is. 
On the other other hand, I plan on gutting the DCC setup in the E60 and going for a LokSound setup, including a sugar cube speaker. The cool factor is that LokSound has an electric locomotive sound scheme that is very similar to the GE E60 (basically sounds like a giant refrigerator). Cool factor is that the unique Nathan P-0125 horn is available. I prefer the American GK version, but they are difficult to find and the “updated” Bachmann version looks decent and its appearance can be improved with some better
Give them five minutes. As soon as somebody realizes what’s happening, the prices will go up.
Hello Mark,
Why would that be the case?
I may be mistaken but, so far, the competition between the manufacturers has been economically healthy and seems to lean slightly in our favor.
Don’t you think so?
You do not understand buissness, it is not a symbiotic relationship in many cases although some have alligned themselves in that way. Bachmann uses Soundtrax stuff and they are starting to use the more advanced chips on some models.
Thats what I like about a cetain retail seller, they are never firm on their prices and overstock or poor selling road names are heavily discounted. They always seem to have deals on NYC stuff, proubly because they over order on purpose and slowly sell off the excess, very buisness like but rare in the hobby world.
Free market transactions are the very definition of symbiotic.
That’s the only way wealth can be created in excess of labour input.
Nobody is coerced into parting with cash (stored labour value) in exchange for a locomotive model.
Price is determined by willingness to part with cash. That part is outside the control of the manufacturer and the retailer, apart from marketing. For addictive hobbies like ours the marketing strategy can be pretty over the edge (Rapido springs to mind for some reason) but the major part of the market is very knowledgeable (or is sure they are even if not, ask me how I know)
“Build them and they will buy” is not generally a good business model.
Are there electric train addicts? I guess so, there are addicts for all kinds of things. I doubt the addicts make up enough of a market share to make marketing decisions.
-Kevin