As part of discovering how to use weathering powders, I’m going through a learning process using clear flat finishes. My problem may be that I’m trying to take a shortcut, and use a flat finish that I can get locally (Krylon clear flat) rather than dullcote.
My problem is that the finish seems “bumpy”. It’s OK from 3’ but when you get within about a foot the bumps become visible. I can wet sand them down using 400 grit sandpaper but it would be nice if the finish went on nice and flat.
Here’s an example of what I am talking about. (You can click the link for the big image if you want.)
Also, does anyone who uses weathering powders have any input on making them “stickier”? I’m using Bragdon powders and they seem to not want to adhere. Do you recomnend a stiff or soft brush?
That does look bad. For me, I switched to the airbrush and buy floquil gloss or dullcoat. No more problems. I even had problems with testors rattle can giving me the same thing you have.
I used to have the same problem. What I do now is to put on an initial light coat and let it dry then go back and put a slightly heavier coat. Not too heavy though because the Clear Flat will fog.
When a coat of paint assumes a texture similar to the skin of an orange, it usually means that it was either applied too thick (in too few thin coats), or it was applied over an incompatible previous paint.
Perhaps someone in here who spray paints frequently, or for a living, can be of more help.
I’ve never had a problem with the Krylon product. Maybe you’re jinxed. Make sure the spray nozzle works correctly, shake can well, have contents at room temperature, and spray from about 12 to 18 inches away, applying light coat(s). I have a slight preference for Krylon over Dullcoat, and that’s not considering the Krylon product is much less expensive.
Use a not-too-soft brush to rub on the weathering powder. The more you brush it in, the more it sticks. Make sure the surface isn’t too smooth. If needed, apply a coat of Dullcoat, etc. first tol roughen the surface so the chalk can stick better. Spray Dullcoat, etc. after the chalk is applied to reduce/nearly eliminate sight of the chalk (and the reason I avoid doing so).
Actually paint orange peeling is normal. When it is sprayed, the paint is atomized and doesn’t go on completely flat. To get around it you have one option. Wet-sand with really fine grit sand paper (1500 wet-dry, if not finer) and buff it with compound. Of course this is automotive pant, but should be able to be used on models.
A few years back I had a similar problem. The coating wrinkled the paint and it peeled off. Since that episode I read the directions to make sure it is compatable with my paint and plastic. I mainly stay with known model company products because some of that hardware store coatings can eat through anything if your not careful including that styrofoam cup of coffee on your layout when you over spray…it did give that area some dark earth tones though…
I haven’t used a rattle-can on my trains, but back in the day I used them on model cars and always got better results by heating the can in warm water and seriously shaking that bad boy. And watch your distance from the target - I would love to give a number, but every brand seemed to be different, if I recall.
The problem you are having is using the wrong product for the project. Krylon spray cans are made for paint things like patio furniture, not small objects that come under close scrutiny.
The hole in the nozzle is sized for larger applications, and as such, does not atomize the paint fine enough. Then, to compound the matter - spraying it in light coats is just applying all those larger atomized particles on the surface leaving a “bumpy” surface. The only way you’ll get a smooth finish is to spray on a wet coat - not numerous dust coats. This will allow the finish to flow out into a smooth surface.
That’s the advantage of using an airbrush, it atomizes the finish much finer than the nozzle on any spray can. Even with light dust coats, the atomized paint from an airbrush is so fine, the texture is not even detectable.
When I had paint problems like that, I coated the items with “Rounhouse Barrier” first. After drying (next day), I could paint anything over them. Don’t know if Barrier is around anymore.
If your final paint comes out bumpy over Barrier switch to another brand.
The surface issues resemble what happens with an airbrush when too much air is in the mix and the paint dries before hitting the surface. I suspect that is not what is happening here. Actually I have had decent luck with spray cans of matte finishes such as Dullcoat and the Krylon product, but I agree with an above poster that high humidity affects the results, and I try never to use a spray can of any kind without at least two full minutes of shaking. That may seem excessive but my experience is that that is nearly a minimum amount.
As to adhesive powders I have become resigned to the fact that a repeated application is called for, for best results, and they adhere better to a flat finish such as the first application provides. Things get better with each repeated application it seems.
My “Frugal Modeler” column in the NMRA Midwest Region’s Waybill showed how I have used sifted fireplace ash for this purpose. It’s not ideal but it’s free, and like the Bragdon powders it seems to have innate adhesive qualities (i.e., it sticks to everything, including stuff you don’t want it to - such as my camera!)
What your experiencing is a "talc invasion " Talc is whats added to clear finishes such as Dullcoat or Krylon flat. The typical result is exactly what you’ve described, the solution for this is really quite simple take all the rattle cans of this stuff you have and toss em right in the trash. (appropriate recycling container of course). A much “safer/better” way to achieve that look is to simply spray a light coat of either Polyscale or Flowquil Flat Finish (depending on what type of paint your using) over your rolling stock locomotive or what ever.
When it comes to weathering a locomotive I mix in a little bit of grimy black with the flat finish just for a touch of color and the end result is outstanding. I can’t take credit for this method as I learned it from probably one of the best brass painters/modelers who ever picked up an airbrush Howard Zane. Being a professional painter of cars and motorcycles for over 30 years I wanted to kick myself in the butt for not figuring that out on my own but you know what knowledge is a great thing period.
As far as that “orange peel” finish that has been discussed it is typically caused by too much air pressure and accelerated drying caused by fast evaporation of the reducing medium used to thin the paint. The way to get a nice smoth glossy finish on any paint job is the paint mus have time to flow out on the surface it’s been applied to
In the world of painting cars and motorcycles etc. There are "slow reducers and retarders to slow down the evaporation time therefore allowing the paint to flow out over the surface resulting in that smooth as glass finish which also results in that high sheen you can see yourself paint job. Now before we get all excited and want to try something like this I must add that it take years of experience and just the right touch for a painter not to have his product run and drip right off the surface and onto the floor of the paint booth. (ask me how I know this to be a fact…lol)
Jim, on close inspection of that picture, it looks more like you’ve been spraying too light a coat of the finish - the coverage is not complete. The paint appears also to be drying in the air before it hits the model. You should spray a coat that is “wet”, without getting so much paint on that it runs. Try painting from a bit closer to the model. Always, practice on a "junk car first. Though I don’t use it, Krylon has a reputation for being pretty reliable as a clear flat finish. Personally, I prefer Floquil Crystal Cote (gloss) and Floquil Flat Finish (flat) when doing decals or weathering.
I use acrylic flat spray from an art supply store. It seems to work OK. It’s OK if it goes on a little thick as it seems to level itself off while drying (if you don’t get it TOO thick that is).
Thanks, I’ll give that a try. Not that I am discounting other’s advice to ditch the rattle cans, but it’s what I have here, now, and since I’m already well into this car, what the heck? Will let you know how it turns out.
I think you might be on to something. I went downstairs, shook the devil out of the spray can, snuggled up a little closer to the car, and laid on a good wet coat of flat. Since I already was working over such a bumpy finish, it didn’t come out perfectly, but I thought there was some improvement.
So I decided to try another car-one without the existing bumpy finish of the covered hopper. I had already sanded the logo of this MDW boxcar down a bit, and I hit it with a good wet coat of flat finish from a warm, well shaken can-and the result was as different as night and day. This time the finish was nice and smooth after the car dryed.
So, thanks for the suggestion. In fact, thanks to everyone who replied with suggestions-that’s the kind of thing forums like this are so useful for. I will continue to experiment with this, and try to practice on what you referred to as “junk” cars. Next train show I attend I’ll have to hit the 3 for $5 boxes a bit harder.
I have found that if the temperature is high, the humidity low and the can too far away the lacquer can dry before it hits the model. It results in a splotchy appearance.
