Problems with new Titan decoder

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

I just had 2 of my new steamers professionally installed with the new Titan decoders.

I just got them back this week. So last night I started with the Athearn 4-8-4 UP 844.

After spending over 3 hours last night fighting with it, I was ready to smash everything to bits.

I’m using the latest version of Decoder Pro. And I selected the Titan Steam decoder.

Where to begin, oooh…

OK first the loco would barely move, all jerkey. Ok fine, adjust the start voltage. I spent over an hour just trying to figure out how to get it to not jerk. The start voltage is set at 75. BEMF was also causing problems, it was enabled by default. I had to change it to Standard Throttle Control.

OK great, now it doesn’t jerk. On to the sound. First of all, there are WAAAAAAAY to many options. There must be like over 200 options just for sound. It has dual speakers, and you can adjust each sound for each speaker. Way too complicated.

I was having problems with the Chuf sounds. After programming so many times, the decoder just started acting really wacky, the Chuf sounds were getting garbled.

At one point it sounded OK, but after running around the layout, it started acting wacky again. And then it started jerking again. I ended up resetting back to defaults.

After a reset it, it was fine, so then I started changing the sounds again. Back to the garbled sounds.

I reset again, and this time nothing worked, no movement, no sound. Reset 3 more times. Finally it’s alive again. I was able to get rid of the jerking, and the sounds were finally right.

I don’t know if this thing is faulty or what. But I don’t like it at all. At this point, if anything changes with jerkeyness and/or chuf sounds, I will have to get the decoder removed and sent back.

I didn’t even start on the other loco, it’s an EM-1. I’ll let you guys know if I have problems with that.

Bottom line, newly designed decoder is buggy.

2

Michael, that is not good news.

But, yes, obviously run the EM-1 to see if there are similar problems or not. That will at least help to pin down the nature and source of the problem.

Rich

3

Sorry to say it…but the Tsunami is proven and unsurpassed. Why did you choose the Titan?

David B

4

From what I read of the manual, if you aren;t using stereo sound, the speakers cna be set to work together with one adjustment rather than individual (which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when not in stereo mode, although if you use one really big high bass speaker and one smalelr one it would be extremely useful to adjust the equalizers individually so the high bass speaker isn;t trying to reproduce high frequency sounds and the smaller speaker isn;t trying to reproduce the bass. But I digress…)

As for the BEMF, I really find it hard to beleive that they woudl screw up what previously was a superb BEMF functionality. Every real improvement int hese decoders seems to be directed toward the sound side, they don;t even make note of any real changes int he motor drive. I would hope a professional wouldn;t fool around with the BEMF controls unless they knew what they were doing, but optimal operation generally requires some tweaking of the paremeters. Jerky operation generally means the BEMF is operating too strongly and overcompensating for any hitches in the mechanism. And CV2 shouldn;t have to be set anywhere near 75 with BEMF functioning.

Now for the EM-1, dunno if they have the capability in the current sound sets or not, but the stereo feature would be great for a non-compound articulated’s going in and out of sync. Or even for compound articulates, since many of them for starting could operate in simple mode.

I still plan on getting oen for a diesel install, as the QSI diesel decoders work MUCH better than Tsunamis when it comes to getting the train underway,

–Randy

5

Maybe for steam, but the diesel Tsunamis are way behind the times. The huge lag in development left them as an upgrade to the DSD but lackign compared to more modern decoders. The sounds ignore the momentum settings and the horns are still weak no matter how you fiddle with the equalizer and reverb. ANd the lack of CV6 is just infuriating. I don;t knwo of any other current production mainstream decoder that doesn;t have CV6, even though the NMRA calls is optional. JMRI or not, speed tables should not be necessary to set decent speed matching.

I’ve heard Tsunami steam locos, they sound great. No Tsunami diesel, my own included, sound that good. My commercially done Tsunami FT is not all that much better than the dummy F7B I did myself with a DSD-LC. I really don’t get the near worship for Tsunamis, had they been delivered when originally announced instead of delayed for a couple of years, they would have been far in advance of anything else. But that was years ago. Loksound and QSI have gone through multiple incremental improvements in the time since Tsunami was announced and finally delivered.

Yes, I can be an opinionated curmudgen at times [(-D]

–Randy

6

I just started running it again, and to my surprise it seems to be working ok. I just hope nothing changes. But seriously, I can’t believe what I had to go through to get it to this point.

I think they over-engineered it with way too many options.

I also shot a quick video of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca5MmonIjXA

7

Seems like CV2 might still be too high, it seems to leap into motion - or was that a heavy hand on the throttle? Also seems like the chuffs are set too low relative to the other sounds. The whistle sounds great though.

–Randy

8

Randy, that was me at the throttle. At speedstep 1 it’s smooth when it takes off.

Last night when I was trying the different sound levels, is what made it act wacky. So at this point, I’m not touching it. Too scared to. LOL

Do you know if this thing has the ability to upgrade the code if they come out with fix for it? If it’s buggy code, I’m sure they will know about it. I’m also gonna call QSI on Monday, and explain my frustrations with their product.

9

There may be issues with the decoder, but does not a “professional installer” have some responsibility to set the thing up and make sure it actually works properly?

10

The DCC installer only programs the road number, and let’s me do all the tweaking. They said the sounds worked and ran it on a small piece of test track. They wouldn’t have encountered the problems I had discovered.

11

I have to wonder, since it now seems to be running fine, if the problem was that it was new out of the box and needed a break-in period to perform correctly.

Rich

12

Randy, the magic is in the programming. JMRI is a must for them and makes it simple.

David B

13

OMG!!! The same crazy stuff happened to the EM-1 also! I’m losing my mind.

First let’s start with running. No matter what I do, I can’t get it to move until I get to speedstep 7 (on 28 speedstep) on my throttle.

I tried setting the starting voltage, and it didn’t like that at all. Not even a value of 1, it must be set to 0. I had, once again, to mess with BEMF and the speed table settings to smooth it out. It starts nice and smooth now, but not until I have the throttle at 7. I don’t even care at this point.

Now when I set the starting voltage at 10, then it messed up the sound. It was like a screeching loud sound. So I had to do a reset, but not one, but not two, but three resets to get it back alive again.

The sounds are fine, but when it’s running at mid to hi speed it gets louder, a lot louder. I cannot find out how to keep the same sound level at higher speeds.

I’m wondering if its a problem with JMRI??? Or these decoders suck cow bells. One of the two.

14

Do you have a QSI programmer or know someone with one? Their CV program would be best for the QSI decoders. At least, you will be able to trouble shoot and re-upload the sounds to the decoders.

I typically have to turn off BEMF with QSI decoders when ever I have a frictionless drive train (think Kato). It is almost like they need an imperfect mechanism to operate the BEMF properly.

Good luck and keep us posted as we all can benefit from your journey.

David B

15

David, no I don’t have the QSI progremmer. Good suggestion though. As I’m thinking something wacky is happening during programming.

I just shot a video of the EM-1 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IorJHax6a7g&feature=youtu.be

I’ll be calling QSI on Monday, and hopefully they can help me out.

16

QSI firmware is updateble, with the Quantum Programmer. Even the original QSI decoders in Broadway Limited locos are upgradable, once you’ve replaced the original chip with the Q1a upgrade chip.

It’s entirely possible the Titan definition file for JMRI has some bugs in it, it is pretty new. Only way to verify it is check all the CVs defined against the Titan manual to make sure one of the sound CVs didn;t get transposed with one of the BEMF control CVs - that could REALLY mess up performance when all you though you were doing was changing a sound level.

ANd David - I DO use JMRI for stuff like that. No way am I messing aroudn with all those equalizer CVs by hand. My non-sound locos all have some TCS decoder and my prototype doesn;t use any lighting effects so all I do on those is set an address and set basic light operation, I have those things memorized since they’re all teh sam and it’s quicker to just do that via the throttle. But adjust sound decoders, definitely JMRI.

–Randy