I am in the process of upgrading an engine serving facilty that I used on my old layout and will be incorperating it into the new layout. (unfortunetely the only surving part of the layout after the great furnace disaster of 2007) Well any way I was curious as to weather or no t it would be prototypically correct to have dwarf signals in an engine serving facility on the various trunouts (5) for lead in tracks, coaling tower tracks etc. or would switch stands with tagets be more correct?
I think generally you would see switchstands or lighted switch indicators rather than dwarf signals. You might use a dwarf say where the lead for the servicing area joins the rest of the yard.
Hello “Al,”
You’d only expect to find dwarf signals in some kind of signalled territory, which as a rule doesn’t include engine terminals or yards. If a yard or engine terminal lead joins a signalled main line or controlled siding, or if either kind of lead enters an interlocking, that could be an appropriate location for a dwarf.
So long,
Andy
Dwarf signals would be very rare. Inside of a yard, all they are are switch indicators. Since engine facilities typically have a 5 mph speed limit, putting signals on the tracks isn’t going to speed things up much. Normally you see dwarfs on a switching lead or pull out lead where the engineer is handling a large cut of cars and stopping distance is important.
Thanks Andy,
I kind of thought that’s the way it should be but wasn’t sure. I visited a layout this weekend after going to the Timonium show and didn’t notice dwarf signals in the engine serving faciity but did see them in yards so hence the reason for my question and of course you guys have givien me the right info. Gotta love this board.
Thanks again.
Signals are used to indicate block occupancy (like ABS) and/or sending orders remotely for controlling train movement (like CTC). Thus, they would normally only be located along main tracks and passing sidings and at their entry points.
Mark
not all yards had dwarf or “pot” signals where the yard tracks connected to the main line. often, that switch was protected by only by a lamp and/or target mounted on the high switch stand. (opening the switch could also cause the block signals on the main to go red) it was the crew’s responsibility to know if any first class trains were due and to keep in the clear of them. that is why even yard crews were required to have an up to date timetable. rules usually permitted use of the main track within yard limits protecting only against first class trains. other trains on the main line were required to operate under yard limit rules and reduce speed accordingly. there were often phone boxes near the switches where the crew that wanted to foul or use the main could call the block operator who controlled that section of main line and get permission to use the main. they would also call the operator when the move was completed and let him know that they were back in the clear and that the switch was lined back and locked. generally speaking, a dwarf signal was used if the switch connecting to the main was operated by the block operator and not hand thrown.
grizlump
That doesn’t necessarily mean they belong in yards. The only dwarf signals I have seen are in the largest yards and they are more or less switch indicators, they do not indicate occupancy nor do they convey authority, they basically tell the engineer that the switches are lined for his move. So unless you are modeling a huge hump yard, it isn’t prototypical to have dwarfs in the yard.
Having said that a lot of model railroads like them because they think dwarf signals are cool, theya re easier to install than working switchstands and they help keeping from running through a switch, shorting out the trains and/or derailing the train.
Prototypically correct would be the use of ground throws for your turnouts in the actual facility, however where the lead or leads from the engine servicing facility would enter the main track, you would have options.
If the lead enters the main track within an interlocking or CTC, you would then see dwarf or “pot” signals used in conjunction with power switches and derails… The reason for using such a signal at this location would be that it is in such proximity to the engine facility that switchmen or hostlers might still be riding the sides of equipment and they would be susceptible to higher-type signals, etc.
If the lead enters the main track or other track within ABS or non-block territory, the odds would be in favor of a switch point indicator or simply a high stand switch.
The Engine facility on Southern Pacific in Oakland, CA (the diesel shop) had two entries that were signal equipped. One was a pot signal at the west end; the other was a post-type signal at a location colorfully known as “Shopside”. The post signal was used since the fouling point was well out into interlocking limits.