Well, I have no, zero, need to consist locomotives at all. Most of our roster can easily pull 60 car trains, whether with a single Athearn Genesis 2.0 diesel, or a single larger steam engine (4-8-4 or 4-6-6-4). I learned from Youtube new product reviews that some BLI steam engines can literally pull 100 cars on level track.
My track is not level, but at 0.4% maximum grade it might as well be. I am not aware of one single engine of any type that won’t pull at least a 50 car train on my layout.
The only thing I need DCC for is control of sounds and lighting features, some of which are not controlled with the MRC Tech 6 (which btw mine wore out and died).
If you like sound you need DCC and that is clearly the best choice for you. And I agree DCC programming is no big deal.
But let’s not get into what DC can’t do based on your admittedly limited experiance.
Consisting - DC locomotives can be coupled together, forward, back to back, whatever, and they all move in the same direction, left or right, together. And if their gearing and starting voltage is similar, they generally run fine together, especially pulling a train that needs the power.
I have been pulling 40 car trains with ABBA diesel lash ups on DC for over 4 decades now. It works fine. And I double and triple head steam locos of different brands and wheel arrangements all the time.
Lights - many quality DC locomotives have constant brightness lighting that provide full brightness at all speeds. And with some high quality throttles, even provide full brightness lighting before the loco moves.
Slow speed control - not all DC power packs are created equal. Some provide dramatically better speed control than others. The DC throttles I use provide slow speeds equal or similar to DCC.
As an operations enthusiast, I find DCC to be much better for my needs than the traditional DC set up. The elimination of multi- cab DC control has been a great thing for my style of operations. I would probably use DCC even if I weren’t into OPs for these reasons:
I like sound
I like to be able to run locomotives independently in the same block (track).
I like the simplicity of the wiring (as opposed to blocks and multi-cab control).
Drawbacks to DCC are:
Installing decoders in locomotives – especially old brass.
The additional cost of sound.
The habit of DCC systems to display computer like glitches requiring resets.
I went with DCC about 15 years ago. I chose it because of wireless throttles for walk around.
It also greatly simplfied the wiring. I don’t do signalling or CTC because the protoype I’m following (Maryland & Pennsylvania RR in the early 50’s didn’t have it). So it’s basically a 2 wire bus with drops to the track every few feet. Since it’s wireless there’s no command bus.
Sound is an extra, but I don’t always run with it.
I would agree that for newcomers, DCC is probably your best bet. But you could also go a different way depending on your circumstances and goals in the hobby. Like so much in model raillroading, there are many ways to have fun.
And much more… I have wireless radio throttles, my operators are not stuck at control panels, they walk around with their trains and push a few buttons, just like DCC operators who control turnouts as they walk around a layout.
With a CTC dispatcher on duty, the mainline operators do not even have to throw turnouts…push any buttons, or “flip” any toggles… they just run their loco.
I have signals, if you run a red one, your train just stops, nothing bad happens…
Since DCC can do more than DC, and since DC cannot do everything that DCC can do, DCC is the logical choice for everyone except the most passionate DC user. I cannot explain it any more unemotionally than that.
Rich, That is true. I find setting speed steps, start volt and start/stop momentum a big plus for switching on my ISLs. I suspect many modelers would not like my CV set up on my DCC/Sound engines since they will find the need to close the throttle two car lenghts from the switch point due to the momentum setting. Forget any fast switching on the Summerset Ry or SCR.
To be fair my CM II and CM has momentum and braking…
If your entering this hobby brand new completely, my advice is just go for DCC from the get go. Its 2020, most locomotives are DCC or DCC Ready (DC engines with plug and play slots for DCC). In another 15-30 years I imagine the majority of the more serious side of this hobby (I.E. the people who aren’t doing Christmas tree loops or simple set ups for their kids) will be completely dominated by DCC with large DC only layouts considered a relic of the past, and the argument in discussions like this will be fully between DCC and Dead Rail Battery systems. All the pre-90’s DC engines like old Bachmann’s, Athearn and Tyco engines will either be in attic storage boxes or the landfill by then too, with old brass and collectible toy trains being likely the only 20th century built locomotives to survive in the layouts of the future.
It doesn’t take me far to really find evidence for that claim either. I can think of absolutely zero DC operators in my area. All my friends are DCC (a sample range from late-40’s to late teens). Some are pro-sound, some are anti-sound; but all are DCC. Its the only common way to ensure our equipement can work if we visit each other’s set ups, and those that have DC locomotives consider how they can shove a decoder in there and make the conversion.
Would you rather drive a Model-T or a Tesla Model-S? Fly on the Wright Flyer or an Airbus? Use a telegraph or a laptop? Yes vintage equipment can have a nostalgic appeal (steam preservation and historical ambience is arguably the cornerstone of this whole railfan hobby), but in another 10 years that old Bachmann GP40-2 from 1976 ain’t going to have the same historical value of say a real 1:1 scale GP40-2 in a museum. Unless there is some sentimental value in say “running grandpa or dad’s old trains” the death of DC in large layouts is only a matter of time.
Yeah I argued with emotion, I dare say that the emotion of nost
I have no nostalga for anything model railroading except a few brass engines. Could just buy all new but see no need. Could just run both as I have been (just two wires to switch). My switches are not DCC freindly but that is only an issue if I run a switch.
I have relatively little nostalgia for older model railroad products.
There were 40 year old trains that survived from childhood, but they had seen better days, did not run all that great anymore, and all of them save one Mantua-Tyco trolley were thrown away. The trolley is in really nice condition, so I kept it as a reminder. My dad would glue painted figures into stuff; the guy in the trolley did finally fall out not that long ago, and I didn’t bother to put him back. I guess I keep the trolley as a tangible reminder of all the time spent in the train room with Dad. Everything else has been replaced.
My dc layout has all power routing turnouts and no traditional “blocks” at all, so won’t be an issue to convert to dcc.
However, if it were not for the sound and lighting features that my son wants, we would NOT be converting over to dcc at all.
Engines that crawl??? I have the MRC Tech 7 controller. It’s awesome–I reset one BLI ATSF 2-10-2 to factory defaults recently at the train store, and they commented on how well it ran in dcc–very slowly. When I got it home and put it on the track, I noticed it did just as well in plain dc. There was no difference at all in slow speed operation.
If you are using turnouts for power routing, you might have problems switching to DCC, and might want to start a new thread so the DCC guys can weigh in and give you good information.
If you have a DCC locomotive on a power routed section, and you throw the turnout, that DCC locomotive will turn off. Then when you throw the switch back, it will “come-to-life” and got through the start up sequence again.
Again, if you start a new thread about converting a layout with power routing turnouts to DCC you will get some much better information than I can give.
Not true if gapped correctly. Made an error on one and things were as you discribed. Should only shut down if you run a switch. Running DCC right now breaking in an engine.
Thank you for the suggestions regarding starting another topic, but my friend who is taking over a train store is also a mechanical engineer for his “real” job (that he’s reducing his hours working), so I’m all set. I really have all the technical help I’m going to need. He said my layout would be an easy conversion, really, and he has operated the layout himself.
My only concern is voltage drop in the mainline, which I’ll find out if I truly have enough feeder wires. Since it works for DC, I think it’ll be ok.
Someday I’ll have to help him build a layout to run his 1000+ ho freight cars on…but we aren’t there yet.
See You wrote: “If you are using turnouts for power routing, you might have problems switching to DCC, and might want to start a new thread so the DCC guys can weigh in and give you good information.”
I use HO Kato Unitrack (like you did), and some of the switches are power-routing by design (#4 powered), others are “switchable” either way.
I’ve had no problems with dcc v. switches at all. I do insulate the joints behind some of the power-routing switches (but not all). I prefer the way that some sidings and yard tracks can be “shut down” by lining the switch against them.
I even have one switch set so that it “power routes” on the diverging route, but doesn’t on the normal route (easy to do with the little screws on the underside of Kato manual switches)…
