Time has come to make final decision on layout. I already have both DC and DCC along with parts for dead rail and a TRain Engineer set up for DC. I would like to share what I have learned personally thus far. Both DC and DCC work well (DCC has come a long way in the past 6 or 7 years). DC is less likely to shut down quickly with a short, DCC shuts down before you know it. If you want to run mutiple trains at the same time, DCC is the way to go, not that you cant do it on DC but way harder. Remembering things in DCC is way harder with all codes and the fact that each one dose not nessisarily do the same thing with each manufacture. Example on DCC ran many Bachmann locos on my Digitrax DCS51 by hitting power and it defaults to 03 and they run, different address hit loco and type address and hit again, done. But on my MTH I had fogoten that you must first hit 3 before it will start (note is on box now to that effect). Now I will digress a bit and say what I personally like about each of my options. But first what I have found I like. First up I like walk around which is available in all choices. Multiple trains is nice but not needed by me. I like sound but only find it really endearing in steam. After a long time running the diesel sound can overpower and it is easier to drown out the diesel sound with regular track noise than steam (track noise is the accual sound of loco running on rails). In DCC I like the fact that power to frogs can be controled by electronics as well as reverse loops while DC is more a manual thing (still don’t understand why they can’t do the same thing in DC). I found I don’t like the Bachmann easy app trains, but they do work well, just don’t like the sound not on the train and don’t like the feel. I think if I did not have the Train Engineer it would be a no brainer to go DCC, even though it can raise the cost considerably. Would really perfer dead rail though it is still not ready for prime time, though much closer than it used to be. If I decide to go all th
It’s a common misconception that DCC requires a lot of “codes”, like you have to be a computer programmer or something. To control multiple engines on a DCC layout independent of each other, you have to give each a separate ID number. That’s it. The decoder comes with default settings that work fine for everything else. You can change things if you want, like adding momentum, changing how the lighting works, adjusting speed settings so two engines run identically etc. But you don’t have to , the defaults work fine the way they are.
Yes it’s true that different companies use different CVs (Control Values) to control things like speed and light, so you may have to read their info to change something if you want to. However, the basic settings are constant on decoders:
CV 2 adjusts the starting speed, CV 5 the top speed, and CV 6 the middle speed. CV 3 and 4 control starting and stopping momentum.
Function button F0 turns the headlights on and off. On sound decoders, F1 is the bell, F2 is the whistle or horn.
I also use train engineer at home. With three cabs because I enjoy have friends in to operate. Covid go away!.
At the club we are DCC with multipe boosters, set up by members who learned how before I joined.
Moderate volume sound enhaces things in DCC, and there is no problem figuring out which block you are in, as it is all one block operationaly. We also use PECO turnout, and hand throw them, again no learning curve.
DC no problem programing a loco, you don’t need to. A learning curve on each layout as to where the block limits and block controls are. You can still throw turnouts by hand.
Starting over, I would go DCC, and remember that most visitors can bring there own throttle.
I’m an old guy who started with Lionel, then migrated over to DC HO when I was a young teen. Life interfered, and I spent 40 years with my trains in boxes, moving them from attic to basement, until I finally started setting up my new layout.
I started with DC, but after a small financial windfall I bought a DCC system. I disconnected the old power pack and never hooked it up again.
This was my first separate throttle. I could have done that in DC, but never did. It’s pretty standard in DCC. I have a pair of radio throttles, too.
I never had a layout large enough to block out in DC, but that’s just not necessary in DCC. I’m glad I moved to DCC so early. It saved me a lot of effort wiring blocks.
In DC, you run the track. In DCC, you run the trains. That sums it up for me.
RRBELL: I am a devoted DC user.
This is what I tell people trying to make this decision. Ask yourself three questions:
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Can I live without sound?
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Do I have a full understanding of DC wiring and can build, troubleshoot, and repair without help?
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Do I already have a substantial collection of locomotives that would be expensive or difficult to convert or replace?
Unless you answer “YES” to ALL THREE questions, you should use DCC and not look back.
I hope this helps.
-Kevin
While my layout’s strictly DC, I have operated on a friend’s DCC layout. Of course, I didn’t need to do any programming, or have any understanding of how it works, so it was simple for me to use. I think that for multiple train operations, and for those who like sound and lighting effects, it’s probably the best choice.
I’m currently working on installing the equipment needed for so-called “dead rail” operation, for another friend, who wants to give it a try. The initial cost is what I would consider pretty steep, but adding additional locomotives would likely be similar in cost to locos for DCC.
Personally, I don’t see the attraction, but then I don’t have need to clean track, other than after ballasting or adding lineside scenery. Otherwise, a bit of work with a shop vac every year or two generally takes care of track-cleaning maintenance.
That friend was strongly anti-DCC (not really sure why, but he’s generally more comfortable with older technology for pretty-well everything, and his layout is currently DC-powered).
However, in my opinion, his layout’s wiring is overly complicated, which, when using dead rail, could be eliminated. I seriously doubt that he will go beyond the one locomotive, though (if I ever complete it).
Of course, as a DC operator on my own layout, operations are pretty simple, which is good for simple people like me.
I don’t need to control multiple trains because, as a sole operator, I want only one train moving at a time, so it’s always in sight (walk-around tethered throttle, with multiple plug-in jacks spaced around the layout) and always under control. Most turnouts are manually controlled, although a few hard-to-reach ones are powered.
Layout wiring is simple: two wires from the power source to the rails. Toggle switches on the layout fascia allow me to kill power to some sections of track, if I wish to park a train in order t
Without emotion. Spock would approve. [Y]
I am in agreement with Kevin as it relates to most modelers.
I will add this, if you have any interest in signaling or CTC, DCC does not make that easier or less expensive, it just makes it different.
Here is what kept me a DC user:
Signaling and CTC was a must have for me. Signaling and CTC requires blocks, blocks that can be easily linked to different throttles as part of the CTC process.
A dislike for the poor fidelity of onboard sound, and a dislike for the din of multiple sound locos going at once. I am building a layout where 5-10 trains will be moving at the same time.
A large fleet of DC locos that would be expensive and time consuming to install decoders in.
I model a time period when there were no fancy lighting effects and day time use of headlights was just beginning to be standard.
The availablity of the Aristo Train Engineer wireless radio DC throttle - wireless throttles were a must. DCC wireless throttles were just beginning to be available when I made the choice to use the Aristo throttles.
I have a strong electrical/electronics background so building my own signal system/cab control/CTC/turnout controls was not an issue.
Obviously my reasons are unique to my needs, goals and resources.
Others will have different needs, goals and re
I guess I fall in between the DC and DCC camps. I went with DCC at first for the sound, I really like the DCC steam sound. As time went on I found that the remote switching functions of DCC for lighting effects very nice.
For years I used simple latching magnetic reed switches for controlling the lighting. Even with DCC functions they simply parallel my reed switches so either will work.
I run dual mode, DC or DCC. My main thing is working at the workbench restoring clunkers to as good or better than new condition. At this point in time I have restored over 70 locomotives and wired them for DCC. Using the NMRA 8 pin sockets the DC adapter plug works for DC operations and I can easily plug in a DCC decoder in any locomotive to operate it in DCC mode. I only have a total of 13 decoders and move them around.
When I built my final layout DCC was far away for me back in the late 80s. I didn’t consider running multiple trains so I designed and built it as an HO twice around single mainline sort of a slightly larger John Allen original G&D of the early to mid 50s layout.
When our great grand daughters come over they get a blast of running in DCC mode with the sound on. I laid out my control panel so that even the five year old can easily operate my layout.
For myself I operate in DC mode about 70% of the time. Sometimes while I work on scenery I will continuously run a Cab Forward (either passenger or freight) with sound on the mainline.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Solution to issue #1 - the different functions: Pick a drnad of sound decoder and stick with it. Also despite marketing speak touting 29 functions, 20 of them are generally pointless. If not more. “Because they can” results in all the functions getting used up to do things like automatic grade crossing whistles (just blow the horn yourself, you lazy…fine person [:D] ), radio chatter, station announcements, ambient sounds (which sould be coming from a field next to the track, not the loco - unless the engineer snuck a cow in the cab or something).
DC is cheaper, no doubt.
If you like sound locos though, DCC is really the better way to go.
–Randy
Hey, I like the civil discusion and at this rate I am sure it will help all those not commited. I might also add that the cost has come way down on RTR dcc, so much so I am surprised that some models are so much more expencive. I do love my RTR Bachmann DCC and sound 2-6-0. Great detail (a must have) and it runs perfectly and the sound is good too, all for less than $100 retail.
I have trouble being brief, but I’ll try:
My first experience was with a Marklin DC set way back in 1962. Ran flawlessly, if silently, and I loved it. It disappeared by the time I was 13 and my mind turned to other things.
45 years later, walked into a hobby shop and fell in love with the BLI Hudson with QSI sound. Pretty sure the proprietor saw me coming. Used DC for the first few months, then purchased a Super Empire Builder from Digitrax, also from him. After I learned how to use the system, and to tune decoders, I have not looked back. All the vexations over DCC I share and know only too well. Horrible sounds competing at max volume is a recipe for failure for anyone…and I do many everyone. Stalls and system restarts when some decoders lose power momentarily…yeah, hate it. I have learned how to minimize it, though.
DC is simple, can be much more complex if needed, and it makes the trains run more consistently. DCC offers more bells 'n whistles and flexibility without all those switches, terminals, and wiring, or automation, but it comes at the cost of immediate shut downs during the briefest of shorts, decoder startup sequences in some cases, and some of that darned vexation that ensues.
IF it were all just for me, I’d only ever need plain DC, period.
My youngest son, almost 14, already has Genesis 2.0 diesels he’s not using all the features of, and he’s got a Genesis 4-6-6-4 and a BLI 4-6-6-4, that he’s not using all the features thereof.
I as of right now have only one BLI ATSF 4-8-4 for myself, with an MTH 2-8-8-4 on the way, due any day, and other BLI ATSF steamers (2-8-2’s) on pre-order.
I promised him I’d get him DCC “soon” so he could use all the features of his engines.
Basically we are just waiting for sales proceeds from one last brass steam engine to come in from consignment, and for some HO plastic stuff to sell, and then Johnny can have DCC. We have already sold almost all non-dcc diesels or steamers.
John
My last ISL was DCC/DC thanks to my Tech 6 and this give me the best of both worlds.
My protolance Santa Fe end of Alexander branch switching layout will be DC because of the two brass Santa Fe steam engines. I will use either my MRC Control Master II or my Control Master 20.
If your entering this hobby brand new completely, my advice is just go for DCC from the get go. Its 2020, most locomotives are DCC or DCC Ready (DC engines with plug and play slots for DCC). In another 15-30 years I imagine the majority of the more serious side of this hobby (I.E. the people who aren’t doing Christmas tree loops or simple set ups for their kids) will be completely dominated by DCC with large DC only layouts considered a relic of the past, and the argument in discussions like this will be fully between DCC and Dead Rail Battery systems. All the pre-90’s DC engines like old Bachmann’s, Athearn and Tyco engines will either be in attic storage boxes or the landfill by then too, with old brass and collectible toy trains being likely the only 20th century built locomotives to survive in the layouts of the future.
It doesn’t take me far to really find evidence for that claim either. I can think of absolutely zero DC operators in my area. All my friends are DCC (a sample range from late-40’s to late teens). Some are pro-sound, some are anti-sound; but all are DCC. Its the only common way to ensure our equipement can work if we visit each other’s set ups, and those that have DC locomotives consider how they can shove a decoder in there and make the conversion.
Would you rather drive a Model-T or a Tesla Model-S? Fly on the Wright Flyer or an Airbus? Use a telegraph or a laptop? Yes vintage equipment can have a nostalgic appeal (steam preservation and historical ambience is arguably the cornerstone of this whole railfan hobby), but in another 10 years that old Bachmann GP40-2 from 1976 ain’t going to have the same historical value of say a real 1:1 scale GP40-2 in a museum. Unless there is some sentimental value in say “running grandpa or dad’s old trains” the death of DC in large layouts is only a matter of time.
Yeah I argued with emotion, I dare say that the emotion of nostalgia is the main defense DC has ever really had
I ran dc years ago and had allot of fun, easy to use, lot more wiring but that was ok.
But then one day I heard a sound locomotive at a show and somebody was showing off his small layout using dcc.
I was hooked on both sound and dcc and they say the rest is history. Out went my dc locomotives, converted or sold.
I recommend going dcc from the start, you won’t be sorry.
Dave
As for me I still like both because I have more DC engines then DCC/Sound engines. I’m at home using DC or DCC without nostalgia being involved that’s why I went with the Tech 6 instead of spending hundreds of dollars on a DCC system and decoders for every locomotive I own.
As far as my two brass steam engines we talking a costly upgrade with can motor and a DCC decoder… IMHO its not worth the cost of the upgrade since I already have a CM II, CM20 or if I buy a DCC/Sound engine I can use my Tech 6.
[quote user=“xboxtravis7992”]
If your entering this hobby brand new completely, my advice is just go for DCC from the get go. Its 2020, most locomotives are DCC or DCC Ready (DC engines with plug and play slots for DCC). In another 15-30 years I imagine the majority of the more serious side of this hobby (I.E. the people who aren’t doing Christmas tree loops or simple set ups for their kids) will be completely dominated by DCC with large DC only layouts considered a relic of the past, and the argument in discussions like this will be fully between DCC and Dead Rail Battery systems. All the pre-90’s DC engines like old Bachmann’s, Athearn and Tyco engines will either be in attic storage boxes or the landfill by then too, with old brass and collectible toy trains being likely the only 20th century built locomotives to survive in the layouts of the future.
It doesn’t take me far to really find evidence for that claim either. I can think of absolutely zero DC operators in my area. All my friends are DCC (a sample range from late-40’s to late teens). Some are pro-sound, some are anti-sound; but all are DCC. Its the only common way to ensure our equipement can work if we visit each other’s set ups, and those that have DC locomotives consider how they can shove a decoder in there and make the conversion.
Would you rather drive a Model-T or a Tesla Model-S? Fly on the Wright Flyer or an Airbus? Use a telegraph or a laptop? Yes vintage equipment can have a nostalgic appeal (steam preservation and historical ambience is arguably the cornerstone of this whole railfan hobby), but in another 10 years that old Bachmann GP40-2 from 1976 ain’t going to have the same historical value of say a real 1:1 scale GP40-2 in a museum. Unless there is some sentimental value in say “running grandpa or dad’s old trains” the death of DC in large layouts is only a matter of time.
Yeah I argued with emotion, I dare say that the emotion of nost
I would rather your emotion would have been left out of your response per the OP’s request.
Also, I do not use DC because of nostalgia, nor do I know anyone that does.
-Kevin
I started out with DCC and sound I just can’t live without sound. I don’t like any of my locomotives silent. But I turn the volume to a low level. And I don’t blare the horn all time. It adds to the environment.
When I first started out I was learning about both DC and DCC. I got a DC loco and DC power pack and didn’t like the lights (changing brightness) and movement was not to my liking. With DCC you can make your loco crawl if you wish.
You cant consist several locomotives in DC, just run them in the same direction.
Its very easy to program a DCC using Decoder Pro. Takes me 20min, and that includs speed mathing.
Just my opinion.