How can I get information on the etiquette of the open-section sleepers in the heydays of the Pullman Company?
Some questions that come to mind - How many individuals shared a “section” (2,3,4?). How would the Pullman Company sell tickets to unrelated individuals not travelling together. Would people be grouped by destination? Who rode forward, who rode backwards? If everyone sat in the lower berth area, what if the person holding transportion for the lower berth wanted to go to bed before the upper berth persons wanted to? Where would the upper berth passengers go? What was the fare differential between upper and lower berths?
The section is still in use in Canada. I’ll tell you what I remember from my trips.
The upper and lower were sold either separately or as a section. I only travelled with my wife, so we booked a section but shared the lower. The day seats were rather cramped for 2 people to sit side by side. I can only remember family groups travelling more than 2 to a section. I think that all the sections were made up at the same time. There were usually some sort of lounge cars where you could move, but certainly not enough for a whole trainload.
You might check the VIA rail website to see what the fare difference is now; just don’t buy a ticket by mistake!
David
Thanks for the information. The etiquette and customs on Pullmans during the “heavyweight” era are not covered well in books and magazines. I have read all manner of mechanical information and stories of porters, conductors,etc. but what was it like to travel this way? I will contact VIA for further information.
I rode in an “upper” on the VIA Canadien out of Vancouver in the early 1980s. My then-girlfriend had the lower berth. I am 6’8" tall and to this day I do not know how I undressed or even slept. But I do remember that when you’ll walk the corridor you’d see the curtains move and every now and then a leg or an arm would stick out. There is a certain “etiquette” involved in not staring at people’s berths as they try to undress!
During the day our berths became seating for four (this was done while we were eating breakfast in the diner {and was THAT ever wonderful] the car attendants in Canada were very good) and we were joined by a Japanese couple who spoke nearly no English. I remember the woman drawing a pine tree on a piece of paper, handing it to me and asking “namo?” I would have said “pine” but instead for some reason said “spruce.” She said “spluce?” I said, “no – spruce.” “Spluce” she said. This time I did not correct her. She also insisted on using the men’s room while I was trying to shave. I would say “no – men’s room only” she would bow and leave and then return – I realized she just thought I was exercising my male prerogative to order her around!
It was a great trip – when we stopped at Revelstoke I got out to take a photo of our F units with the mountains in the background. The cars were a mix of CN smooth side and CP stainless steel. The conductor told us our car was built in the early 1950s – it was perfectly maintained but did groan a little going around sharp curves. The Canadian Rockies… seen from a diner while eating a superb lunch, chatting with an older couple from New Zealand … oh man!
Whaty a way to travel! Ummmm… what was the question?
Dave Nelson
Where to begin? In the heavyweight era many cars were 12 section 2 drawing room cars. The sections were for single travelers and, as the old vaudeville routine went, “the price for the upper was lower because it was higher.” Some trains only sold lower berth spaces. The open section car was fading out before World War II, and it really began disappearing after the war as all private room cars were constructed. This is not to say, however, that open section cars were still not around. Railroads such as the New Haven and the L&N had postwar sleepers with open sections. In the case of the New Haven it was to accommodate government travelers. I am not sure why the L&N had them. There are some excellent books that can tell you more about it. I particularly recommend a volume called Night Trains. For information re working for the Pullman Company, you’ll want to take a look at Those Pullman Blues. For information about how the Pullman reservation systemn worked and other “inside” details, try and get hold of a wonderful little volume called Run of the 20th Century. Pentrex also sells a video called “Flight of the Century” which has some outstanding late 20’s era footage of hw sleeper travel. Finally for a little comic relief after all this reading, watch the Three Sttoges classic short “Pain in the Pullman.”
work safe
Perhaps I can answer some of the questions about open section sleeper etiquette…
Only two unrelated passengers could share a section; one in the upper berth and one in the lower berth, however a family of four might share an entire section with two in the upper berth and two in the lower berth. During WW II when troops traveled by sleeper one slept in the upper berth, and one slept in the lower berth.
I understand it was common practice for the upper berth passenger to ride backwards.
Ticket agents could sell either an upper berth, a lower berth, or an entire section (single occupancy)to one traveler. In the last case the upper berth was not made up. In fact when my wife and I returned from our honeymoon in Canada we had to take the Washingtonian from Montreal to Newark, NJ instead of flying to New York since the airports were closed due to a hurricane threat. All that was left was an open section sleeperand wechose a single occupancy section for the two of us because it was a little cheaper.
We ran into a neighbor of my parents who was a Pullman Conductor and he found us a bedroom in a 10-6 sleeper by the time the train reached St Albans, VT. but as he was writing it up the station agent came out and told the conductor they needed a bedroom for a cardiac patient going to New York who was supposed to occupy a drawing room in a sleeper on the Vermonter (not to be confused with Amtrak’s Vermonter). They couldn’t get him into the drawing room because the lights wouldn’t work so they had to put him in the bedroom we were supposed to get. It was cramped with two people sleeping in the lower berth. Even though we were in a heavyweight car the ride was rough so I didn’t get much sleep.
I believe the berths were all made up at one time. My dad worked in the LIRR shops at Morris Park so we got “foreign” passes every year, most often to Lewiston, Maine where my mother grew up. (We lived on Long Island.) We always had a section. I think the upper berth was priced lower than the lower, but in those days (1920s-1930s) I think the charge for the section was not more than $10. We boarded the State of Maine Express at Grand Central; departure 9:00 PM. The route was NYNH&H to New London then via Worcester, Ayer, Lowell, Lawrence, Haverhill, and Dover to Kennebunk, Biddeford, and Portland (7:35 AM), connecting to a Maine Central local. While the porter made up the berths we sat in the club car, always the last car on the train, my parents having highballs, me a Shirley Temple. I’ve done every kind of room, but nothing equals the the feeling of community in an open-section sleeper: bathrobes, slippers, smiles, toothbrushes on the way to the restroom. They say what scares Americans most is intimacy, but on the State of Maine it was a grand slumber party and perfectly safe. I may soon be shopping for an open-section Pullman sleeper and hope we can still find one.
Before people get misled, I think the definition of a section changed over time. The classic 12-1 heavyweight Pullman had (I thought) 12 sections. In that case a “section” was actually the upper and lower berths on both sides of the aisle. But checking a Via timetable from October 1991 it shows a section as only two beds and this is confirmed by other more modern arrangements, such as 4-6-6 cars (sections, roomettes, bedrooms).
Anyway, somebody wondered about the relative costs. Going back to a CN timetable from October 1975 here are the fares for various accommodations from Montreal to Toronto (335 miles).
Base one way coach fare $15-$21. Then the sleeping car is additional.
Upper berth - $12; Lower Berth $15; Roomette $23; Bedroom (2 beds) $34.
Montreal to Vancouver (2914 miles) had a different ratio:
Base one way coach fare $78-$108. Then the sleeping car is additional.
Upper berth - $37; Lower Berth $62; Roomette $78; Bedroom( 2beds) $174.
While the 1991 timetable lists a fare only for a section, not the upper and lower berths separately, I am sure they could still be booked individually. I never liked an upper berth because it lacked a window, although I believe a few cars did give them a small slit. Being able to look out in the middle of the night to see what station you were stopped at was well worth the premium. If both beds were occupied in a bedroom, both passengers had to pay the transportation (coach) fare.
Prices have sure gone up for Canadian rail travel since that time!
John
I have read references to impolite jokes centering around the open section sleepers.
If you watch many old movies, you see an open section Pullman as a comic prop. “Some Like it Hot.”
Yes, the lower berth passenger had the privilege of facing forward as he rode, and the upper berth passenger faced the rear, which, to many people, is not as comfortable a position as facing forward is.
Definitely the upper berth charge was less than the lower berth charge.
The early six section, six roomette, four double bedrooms cars used on the UP and IC had upper berth windows, which were not as great in area as the lower berth windows, but they were not mere slits. (In 1966 I had an upper, from North Cairo to Birmingham, in “American Sailor”–a 6-6-4 which was one of the cars in the equipment of the City of Portland on its first trip from Chicago as a daily train.)
I have also slept in an upper in a New Hven car, a Seaboard car, and several L&N cars.
The postwar cars built with sections had a ladder for each upper; it was not necessary to ring for the porter to bring you a ladder to get up or to get down.