QSI Decoder won't remember address

[selector]

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/242811/2703567.aspx

QSI decoders are quirky, no doubt. F6 is perhaps a necessary function to wake up the decoder in some circumstances. Also, the QSI can seem dormant or unresponsive until you apply some throttle. Don’t assume it isn’t at the ready until you actually direct it to move and it doesn’t.

My Intermountain F7P ABB set will not illuminate the headlight until the throttle is cracked open, just for example. If you power down using F8 it requires two presses. The first press has a volume mute effect. I recall if you shut down using F8 then maybe you need to press F6 to wake it up?

I had forgotten this, and thanks for mentioning it. I have one locomotive that behaves that way, a Lionel HO Challenger. It, for some reason, goes to sleep on its own if I fail to engage it on my throttle over two or more sessions. As soon as I acquire it, it will pop back into sounds mode and act as if nothing had happened. It’s an earlier QSI, about the same vintage as the Paragon Hudsons of 2003/4.

And, some of us do actually use, and like, that coma-mode that QSI introduced. It may seem weird to some users, but I quite like it, along with that super muting customization where you can partially mute the decoder with F8, and not have it binary sound/off. But, we forget if we have put the decoder to sleep with successive presses of F9.

[richhotrain]

If QSI is defunct, maybe it would be best to stick with a “live” brand like Soundtrax or ESU or TCS.

Maybe, but before giving up, I would try some other possibilities.

First, use the three step QSI reset and do it on the mainline, not the Programming Track.

(1) Set CV49 to 128
(2) Set CV50 to 255
(3) Set CV56 to 113

As engine resets you will hear the 3 toots.

Test out the locomotive using address 3.

Second, try to program the long address on with POM (Programming on the Main), not on the Programming Track.

Rich

[Water_Level_Route]

First, use the three step QSI reset and do it on the mainline, not the Programming Track. (1) Set CV49 to 128 (2) Set CV50 to 255 (3) Set CV56 to 113 As engine resets you will hear the 3 toots. Test out the locomotive using address 3. Second, try to program the long address on with POM (Programming on the Main), not on the Programming Track.

I’ll try the reset process you detailed tonight. For what it’s worth, I tried programming the long address on both the programming track and the main previously with no luck. I did not have the reset instructions you provided though, so I’ll give it another shot.

Is it normal on power up of these QSI decoders that they will always give the 3 toots, or only when resetting? Mine does this every time the power turns on.

[Lastspikemike]

I do rather wish decoder makers would try to standardize the F keys. At least the first 10 from F0 to F9.

QSI do use F9 as part of the on/off features along with F8. I can’t remember what F6 does.

It is just annoying if you have more than one brand of decoder to recall which F’ng key does what F’ng thing…

[richhotrain]

richhotrain
First, use the three step QSI reset and do it on the mainline, not the Programming Track. (1) Set CV49 to 128 (2) Set CV50 to 255 (3) Set CV56 to 113 As engine resets you will hear the 3 toots. Test out the locomotive using address 3. Second, try to program the long address on with POM (Programming on the Main), not on the Programming Track.

I’ll try the reset process you detailed tonight. For what it’s worth, I tried programming the long address on both the programming track and the main previously with no luck. I did not have the reset instructions you provided though, so I’ll give it another shot.

Is it normal on power up of these QSI decoders that they will always give the 3 toots, or only when resetting? Mine does this every time the power turns on.

Those three programming steps are the standard QSI Quantum decoder reset to factory default. The three toots are confirmation that the reset to factory default has occurred.

The three toots never occur upon power up. Or, should I say, the three toots should never occur upon power up. That could well be your problem. I now wonder if the decoder is resetting to factory default upon power up which would delete the long address. Whenever you reset a QSI Quantum decoder to factory default, the long address is cleared out and deleted as part of the reset.

Rich

[Doughless]

Water Level Route

richhotrain
First, use the three step QSI reset and do it on the mainline, not the Programming Track. (1) Set CV49 to 128 (2) Set CV50 to 255 (3) Set CV56 to 113 As engine resets you will hear the 3 toots. Test out the locomotive using address 3. Second, try to program the long address on with POM (Programming on the Main), not on the Programming Track.

I’ll try the reset process you detailed tonight. For what it’s worth, I tried programming the long address on both the programming track and the main previously with no luck. I did not have the reset instructions you provided though, so I’ll give it another shot.

Is it normal on power up of these QSI decoders that they will always give the 3 toots, or only when resetting? Mine does this every time the power turns on.

Those three programming steps are the standard QSI Quantum decoder reset to factory default. The three toots are confirmation that the reset to factory default has occurred.

The three toots never occur upon power up. Or, should I say, the three toots should never occur upon power up. That could well be your problem. I now wonder if the decoder is resetting to factory default upon power up which would delete the long address. Whenever you reset a QSI Quantum decoder to factory default, the long address is cleared out and deleted as part of the reset.

Rich

Even though OP says there is no reed switch, it sounds like the switch could be stuck to the reset position. If it ca

[Lastspikemike]

In theory you could remove the reed switch and leave the contact points with enough wire to connect a jumper manually if need be. Same idea as the rest button which you could also wire in place of the reed switch.

From the three toots problem it seems likely the decoder is constantly in reset mode when it powers up. That would explain the symptoms.

[richhotrain]

Let me add a few more thoughts to this most recent discussion.

There may or may not be a reed to use in the reset. There may or may not be a wand to activate the reed switch switch. There should be a jumper on the decoder to reset to factory default. Various versions of the QSI Quantum decoder used different methods.

Personally, I like the three step CV reset process. Once the three step reset is completed, if POM is used to reprogram the long address, it is advisable to disable voice read back that normally occurs with QSI Quantum decoders. So, CV62=0, to disable voice read back.

If the OP wishes to pursue the reed/wand/jumper approach, the NCE website provides some good guidance, as follows:

The Broadway, Atlas, and Lifelike equipped with QSI (ID 113) DCC sound engines use a different reset procedure. Check the manual that came with the engine. Some use a magnetic “wand” for the reset. If there is no “wand” then open the engine or access hatch and find the reset jumper. Remove the jumper and restore the track power. There will be an audible acknowledgment from the engine at the end of the reset sequence (usually 3 toots of the whistle/horn). Replace the jumper and test out using address 3.

If a “wand” is present, locate the internal reset reed switch and place the “wand” over it for a moment. When track power is restored the engine will go through its reset procedure and let you know when done. To find the internal reset (reed) switch, place the engine on active track. Slowly move the “wand” over the top of the engine or tender until the engine alerts you, audibly responds, by a message.

Rich

[Doughless]

In theory you could remove the reed switch and leave the contact points with enough wire to connect a jumper manually if need be. Same idea as the rest button which you could also wire in place of the reed switch.

From the three toots problem it seems likely the decoder is constantly in reset mode when it powers up. That would explain the symptoms.

In lieu of removing it, I have read in the past where others were successful in unsticking the reed by flicking the glass tube with their finger. Being careful of course.

[richhotrain]

By the way, the reason for disabling the voice read back is to avoid confusing the decoder if the POM instructions are keyed to quickly while the voice red back is still responding to a prior instruction.

In fact, it may be best to disable the voice read back even before the 3-step reset to factory default. Key in each command slowly and then pause before keying in the next command. If you do it slow enough and pause between commands, you don’t necessarily have to disable the voice read back.

But, prudence dictates that you disable the voice read back in any event.

Rich

[richhotrain]

During the 2004-2005 time frame, I bought a number of BLI Paragon steam locomotives, most of which I have now sold to trim my steam roster.

However, I still have two of them, a 2-10-4 and a 4-8-4. The relevant instructions differ a bit, so I can summarize both sets of instructions for resets. Incidentally, both boxes have a magnetic wand, for what that is worth.

In the 2-10-4 instructions, the reference to reset is as follows: A misbehaving engine can be reset by toggling the switch to the RESET Position as shown above and cycling the power to the locomotive. The sound system will say “Reset”. This indicates that the electronics are back to factory settings. Toggle the switch back to the Standard Position and operate as normal.

There is no mention of the wand or reed switch. When the instructions say to “toggle”, the switch is actually a slide bar.

In the 4-8-4 instructions, there is a reference to the Quantum Reset Jumper to return the locomotive to factory default. The instructions read: Some newly released products may utilize a reset switch instead of a jumper. See separate instructions.

The instructions then continue: Turn off power. Remove the jumper by pulling up. Reapply power, the whistle will respond with three toots. Turn power off and reinstall the jumper. The decoder is now reset to factory default.

The separate instructions read as follows: To reset the electronics to default settings, off track, toggle the switch to the left, place on track and listen for 3 whistle toots. Toggle switch back to the right. The decoder is now set to factory default.

From all of this, my guess is that the OP is correct. There is probably no reed switch to wave the wand over. There may or may not be a jumper. I do recall resetting to default through the use of the jumper on some of my BLI steamers, so the jumper is there on some BLI steam locos.

Rich

[Lastspikemike]

To reset QSI decoders it is important to observe the power off and power on sequences.

[Water_Level_Route]

Okay guys. Just got a look again at the problem engine. My apologies, there are reset pins, but there is nothing attached to them, so that isn’t the problem. I did the reset procedure Rich provided, and reprogrammed the long address using POM, cycled power, and the decoder reset itself (3 toots!) and it’s back to address 3. Time to address the decoder. I appreciate everyone’s input on this. I just need to decide if I chase the chip replacement or swap it out entirely. Thanks again everyone.

[richhotrain]

Okay guys. Just got a look again at the problem engine. My apologies, there are reset pins, but there is nothing attached to them, so that isn’t the problem.

Call BLI and ask them if they have a jumper that they can send you. I cannot say for sure, but I wonder if that jumper needs to be in place on the two pins. Ask that also if you call BLI.

In my instructions, there is a reference to the Quantum Reset Jumper to return the locomotive to factory default.

The instructions do say if there is a jumper to turn off power. Remove the jumper by pulling up. Reapply power, the whistle will respond with three toots. Turn power off and reinstall the jumper. The decoder is now reset to factory default. So, the instructions do say to reinstall the jumper.

Rich

[richhotrain]

Do you see a slide switch under one of those covers on the tender?

If there is one, that is another way to do a hard reset.

Rich

[Water_Level_Route]

RICH! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! The locomotive’s manual was not on top when I pulled the locomotive out when it arrived. After reading your comment I began to wonder(hope) if the manual was under the foam to see what it might say about the reset pins. I pulled all the foam up out of the box(no manual), but there was this little black piece of plastic in there. Hmmm. Looks like some sort of female plug. Sure enough it fit over the reset pins, powered up the layout, no 3 toots, programmed the address and it is holding! [:D] You’ve turned around what had been an absolutely crummy day up to this point! Thank you so much!

[richhotrain]

RICH! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! The locomotive’s manual was not on top when I pulled the locomotive out when it arrived. After reading your comment I began to wonder(hope) if the manual was under the foam to see what it might say about the reset pins. I pulled all the foam up out of the box(no manual), but there was this little black piece of plastic in there. Hmmm. Looks like some sort of female plug. Sure enough it fit over the reset pins, powered up the layout, no 3 toots, programmed the address and it is holding! You’ve turned around what had been an absolutely crummy day up to this point! Thank you so much!

Kudos to you, Mike, for staying the course on this issue. This is the proper way to manage a thread when there is a problem. You need that back and forth between the OP and the participating members.

The key to solving this issue was the missing jumper. That sure suggested that the reset commands took place, but the actual reset process was not completed.

Rich

[richhotrain]

I began to wonder(hope) if the manual was under the foam to see what it might say about the reset pins. I pulled all the foam up out of the box(no manual), but there was this little black piece of plastic in there. Hmmm. Looks like some sort of female plug. Sure enough it fit over the reset pins, powered up the layout, no 3 toots, programmed the address and it is holding!

It is still holding?

Rich

[gmpullman]

The key to solving this issue was the missing jumper.

You left the jumper in place? I wonder why it was not installed in the first place?

We still don’t know exactly which decoder version you have. Is there a BLI model number on the box? That may help narrow it down. There is some QSI/BLI documentation on their site for early locos.

https://www.broadway-limited.com/supportdocumentation.aspx

Does it look like the photo I posted in my first reply? The jumper pins are clearly visible.

Good Luck, Ed

[Overmod]

What this implies: Some electronic ‘resets’ involve grounding pins (you short across them briefly, or install the jumper to keep the circuit grounded) whereas others require interruption (e.g. “opening a switch” by removing a jumper. This turns out to be an example of the latter case.