Hi everybody. I recently bought a BLI mikado with the factory QSI decoder. I finally figured out how to program the long address via CV’s 17 & 18, then CV29 (It wouldn’t let my NCE system do it via it’s normal method on the programming track. I had to figure out the individual values for 17, 18, & 29 and manually program them in on the main). Problem is, when I shut off the layout, the decoder jumps back to address 3 when I power back on. Am I missing something, or could it just be a bum decoder? Any ideas?
Just one.
It may be possible that there is a reset jumper still in place? Or if the decoder has a reed switch, the tiny electrodes are “shorted” (closed) causing the decoder to stay in reset mode OR if it has a pushbutton (probably only found on later decoders) the button is stuck or otherwise closed also calling for a reset.
QSI reset jumper by Edmund, on Flickr
Just maybe.
Good Luck, Ed
That seems to be a fairly common issue with QSI decoders. They often lose programming on one or more CVs, sometimes including the address, when you turn the DCC system off. If you have one where this happens repeatedly, it’s probably going to continue until you replace the decoder.
One of the layouts where I operate regularly had this same problem with multiple QSI decoders, including those supplied with Broadway locomotives. All the QSI decoders were eventually replaced because of it.
That leaves me uneasy. I must have eight or nine QSI decoders, now at least 13 years old. So far, I haven’t had a problem with any of them. I guess, though, that nothing lasts forever. [:S]
Crandell, I would say that you are good. In my experience with QSI decoders, all of mine factory installed in BLI locos, if they are problem free out of the box, they stay that way. If they are problematic out of the box, they stay that way.
Rich
A couple of questions for you.
Which NCE system? Ph-Pro or Power Cab?
Is the loco the original Paragon?
The biggest problem that I have encountered with factory installed QSI decoders in BLI locos is Advanced Consisting. The QSI is quirky, losing the consist on power down, not clearing CV19 when a consist is killed, dropping or adding locos from or to the consist.
I have never experienced your particular problem with programming long addresses. However, others have had all kinds of weird things happening when programming QSI decoders, particularly on the Programming Track.
One other comment. I have the NCE PH-Pro 5 amp wireless system. I find it useful to tether the ProCab to a UTP panel when programming, either on the Programming Track or POM (Programming on the Main).
Lately, when I program a decoder (any decoder) on the Programming Track, the LCD screen on my ProCab tends to overwrite instructions and values on the LCD screen. Don’t know what that is all about, but it does not adversely affect the programming of the decoder.
So, your issue could be the decoder or the throttle.
Rich
Your decoder may use a magnet to reset rather than a code. If it does my understanding is the decoder won’t reset unless you first reset to factory defaults using a magnet (small magnetic rod supplied with the locomotive when new, but any magnet should work) to trip a magnetic reed switch on the decoder board.
I have Intermountain F Units with QSI decoders. The magnetic reed switch needs to be tripped to reset the decoder to factory default and then it should accept recoding instructions.
Weird but there you are.
Now exactly where in your unit the reed switch is ???
It’s tricky enough to find under the roof of an F unit.
according to the BLI FAQ page here, the steam locomotives have a reset button on the decoder inside the tender,
https://www.broadway-limited.com/faqs.aspx#2
http://www.broadway-limited2.com/support/Paragon2-Reset-Button.png
scroll down until you see the FAQ about resetting the decoder to correct programming mistakes. The magnetic reset and the push button reset both require the odd sequence of power off, press (or activate) the button and while doing so power up the locomotive.
A bit like setting daylight saving time on a Japanese car radio.
Thanks, Rich. I thought I had a late model QSI Titan, or a Revolution, both post-2008, go toast on me a couple of years back, but I somehow convinced it to begin to play nice again. I forget what it was all about…maybe it felt neglected because I rotate my locos in about a two year cycle to keep them fresh. [:)]
Guys, thank you so much for all of your input. Sorry about the delayed response. I’ve been sick the last couple days. As soon as I’m feeling 100%, I’ll start by opening up the tender to see if there is a reed switch/reset button issue. Yes, its the original paragon series BLI.
Rich, I have the very same NCE system but haven’t had the troubles with the throttle display when programming wirelessly, but I’ll keep an eye out for it. Thanks for the tip!
Worst case, this loco jumps to the front of the line for a decoder replacement. Would be a bummer, but there are worse things in life.
Thanks fellas.
So I got the tender apart last night and there is no reset button or reed switch that may be sticking. Absolutely nothing that could be disconnected that would indicate a reset jumper. Guess I better start looking for a tsunami/econami for it.
Thanks again guys.
Some are easy to spot:
IMG_7572_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
Others are tucked in closer to the board (alongside the chip socket):
IMG_7824_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
On this one the two pins this side of the big cap is where a jumper has to be placed for a “hard” reset:
BLI_UP-tender_board by Edmund, on Flickr
and here, a little rubber button does the job:
BLI_P2-reset by Edmund, on Flickr
Maybe yours was made without a method for resetting.
Are you sure it isn’t a Blue Line decoder?
Good Luck, Ed
Yeah, it does seem to be a faulty, or at least quirky, decoder.
I have a lot of QSI decoder-equipped locos, and I have developed a love-hate (mostly hate) relationship with them. So, I decided to research this issue further.
I found several websites that discuss various QSI upgrade chips, each a different version, that deal with faulty QSI decoders. One such upgrade was the Q1A Version 7.0 that apparently would solve my problem associated with Advanced Consists. That is not your problem, but I wonder if one these upgrade chips would solve your problem of programming long addresses.
If you are interested in investigating the upgrade chip solution, let me know and I can provide some links for you to contact before incurring the expense of a brand new sound decoder.
Rich
Ed, it came to me in a Paragon box labeled for an unlettered light 2-8-2. This would seem to match as the loco is clearly a light 2-8-2 and was decaled by the previous owner. The decoder has voice reply when changing CV’s, kind of like a TCS but not exactly, so I’m pretty certain it is the QSI decoder the box suggests. There is clearly no reed switch or button. There are no pins like what you showed either, just a bunch of empty sockets (yes wires in some here or there from wheels, etc). The decoder a two piece deal where an upper board plugs down onto a lower board, kind of like a 21 pin style, but the pins are about evenly split half at one end, half at the other. I didn’t think to grab a pic, but I can tomorrow if it’s helpful.
Rich, I didn’t know the chips could be replaced. I assume this requires desoldering the old and soldering the new, or do they come with other components mounted on one of the two layers to the boards like I described above?
Well, if I were you, I would try using CV1 and set a 2 digit address (two first numbers of the address) and see if it keeps that. I’m a firm believer in delaying purchases!
Simon
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/242811/2703567.aspx
QSI decoders are quirky, no doubt. F6 is perhaps a necessary function to wake up the decoder in some circumstances. Also, the QSI can seem dormant or unresponsive until you apply some throttle. Don’t assume it isn’t at the ready until you actually direct it to move and it doesn’t.
My Intermountain F7P ABB set will not illuminate the headlight until the throttle is cracked open, just for example. If you power down using F8 it requires two presses. The first press has a volume mute effect. I recall if you shut down using F8 then maybe you need to press F6 to wake it up?
One of the links that I was going to provide is one from Mark Gurries.
Here is what Mark has to say about QSI upgrade chips.
This is a OEM hardware upgrade that involves replacing the Q1 chip to a Q1A version that allows downloadable software. Q1A Version 7.x Firmware requires the Q1A chip to be installed. Key advantage of Q1A chip upgrade is it allows all future software upgrades to use the new QSI programmer. No more chip replacement required. Chip swapping is not a user friendly upgrade and one can easily damage the socket if one does not have the correct tool to take the chip out of the Q1 chip out of the socket. If you are using a small screwdriver…you are doing it wrong and may crack the corner of the brittle socket. QSI solutions does sells an inexpensive chip extractor tool and save you time and grief. The tool will really pay off if you have a lot of Q1A upgrades to do.
I have not found a specific reference to your issue, so I cannot say that there is a chip upgrade for it, but it is a possibility. You might contact Litchfield Station for advice.
HO DCC decoder upgrade chip by QSI – #601-HO999 – Litchfield Station
Rich
That link is to a thread that I started some years back. As I noted in that thread, pressing the F6 key once or multiple times will most likely do nothing. The QSI decoder clearly has a mind of its own.
By the way, POM may yield better results than using the Programming Track.
Rich
Those QSI upgrade chips go back some fifteen years. They can be changed out without soldering since there’s a big IC socket on the board. I did about a dozen of my early PCM/BLI engines back in 2006.
I really doubt you’d be able to find any. Maybe some dealer has some tucked away in a drawer somewhere, or eBay. You have to be careful about which chip you get as the sounds and driving characteristics are specific.
https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/dcc-tips-and-tricks/qsi-decoder-versions
I was somewhat disappointed that when I put the upgrade chips in my NYC Niagaras I lost the neat Leslie A200 Tyfon air horn sound that was on the original chips.
Regards, Ed
Good points, Ed.
Yeah, QSI Solutions met its demise some years ago, but Litchfield Station could still have some since they do advertise at least one upgrade chip on their website. That is, if there is even an upgrade chip to solve the OP’s problem. This is clearly a a longshot.
Rich
If QSI is defunct, maybe it would be best to stick with a “live” brand like Soundtrax or ESU or TCS.