I’ll start off by saying that I don’t care for complaining about merchants or producers, so this isn’t a hit job on TW, its an observation that I want to share and see if others are experiencing the same issues. And, I like TW a lot and will continue to buy.
But the last 4 out of 6 locos I’ve purchased this year from TW(I’ve bought a lot from several merchants, including TW, and I’ve been very pleased)
have had parts broken off. Handrails snapped in places, antennas bent or broken. And it not a manufacturer issue. Its happenend with several brands. Just last night, a package was opened to reveal a missing windshield wiper and a handrail broken right where it attaches to the cab…not repairable.
And…the packaging is solid. Both from TW and the manufacturers container. It does not appear to be a shipping issue.
Is TW reselling merchandise that others have returned without properly inspecting it?..that maybe previous sellers have mishandled or were previously damaged in shipping? Does TW maybe get factory flawed locos but sells them at non-flawed prices?
It seems like something is going on, and it doesn’t not appear to be a TW shipping or handling issue, IMO.
Just wondering if anybody else has noticed a pattern here in 2019 and 2020.
I’ve had lots of returns back to TW for in-store credit. In fact, this last loco was purchased on credit that was from a return of a loco for the same issues.
I would blame manufactures, bought two of the engines at different times, first was perfect out of box, second had a host of issues but none that were not easily fixed. But still, these two proubly came from the same batch.
I normally would, but like I said, I’ve bought a lot this year from various merchants, and they have been fine. Not the same loco or the same batch, but releases within months of each other.
That’s why I wondered if TW somehow gets more than its share of factory flawed products in the first place.
Train World should inspect all items leaving store… period!!! When I had my store and that was 40 years ago, we did mail order, and every item that went out was completley checked and the checker signed his name and date of inspection. Both TW and manuafacturers are at fault. Years back Gem imported a C&O J3a 4-8-4 made by Olympia which had issues and most went back to Gem who sent them back to Olympia. Not much was done for repairs and they were repcackaged in a new box with the name Olympia models in the same type face as Gem along with a similar simulated felt box. These models, however were less expensive at $54.95 vs $89.95. Many jumped at the reduced price and got burned including me. You learn from experience. Unfortunately this practice still continues. This is why I do not ship brass models anymore as sometimes it works both ways. I have had a few buyers purchase a model when I was shipping and then claimed it had issues, and send it back for a refund, but what they were sending back was their messed up similar model. I’m winding down from brass sales and will only sell from my studio whereas the buyer can thoroghly test his purchase and leave here knowing the model is in fine shape.
Today, even with excellent packaging, shippers don’t give a **** and still toss boxes around. I have a gate at my front porch and witnessed a UPS guy just toss a package over the gate. Luckily it was not damaged, but I called UPS and complained. Two weeks later the same dickhead diriver was still delivering packages.
I also think that the delivery service is the weak link of this chain. Unless the sender uses a much bigger box with a lot of air bubbles around the package, there is always a risk of damage. I stopped counting the number of articles I received that had damage on them. I’m pretty good at fixing things, so 99% of the time, it’s without any serious consequences. But I know many people who do not order anything because of this. It brings more business to our LHS!
All over the place. One was discounted. TW replaced with the same discounted loco which was fine. I’ve bought discounted locos fromother merchants, and they have been fine too.
I’ve purchased Athearn, Atlas, and InterMountain. Each producer has had at least one sent back.
I had forgotten, I actually got two in the mail last night. The other one had a broken antennae. Two out of two. Both were flawed, and its not the kind of thing a shipping incident would cause, IMO. So thats about 5 out of 7.
My theory, partly, is that buyers are not the innocent people perpetually taken advantage of by those dastardly businesses. I would not be surprised if some of these locos were originally purchased by ham-fisted buyers who snapped something taking it out of the package, then claimed it was a shipping problem and sent it back. The pattern I have seen suggests that to me.
But I don’t know if TW has a resell policy or not.
My son says there are Chinese versions of Amazon that sell factory flawed items really cheaply. I would hope anything returned to TW at least gets put back into that resell market.
If you shopped at or through your LHS none of this would happen.
It isn’t reasonable, let alone cost effective to examine each factory packed model for damage before shipping it AGAIN. Indeed, that would be just a dumb idea. If the distributor opens, checks and repackages then it becomes responsible for any subsequent damage. No sensible business would ever do that if it expected the manufacturer to replace items damaged in transit due to packaging problems.
Even your LHS would lose money using that marketing method.
At your LHS you can usually at least view one version of a model as a displayed product but then there’s the risk of ham handed customers. For NIB product I prefer to buy previously unopened product and your LHS prefers that also for obvious reasons. I usually have the packaging opened and the model taken out and inspected right there with the salespersons assistance. Then we both know who broke it. If it’s a locomotive they will test run it for me right there. No obligation to buy. That’s called customer service and it isn’t supplied for free but these costs are only recoverable if customers actually buy at retail pricing.
Frankly, mail order customers are fortunate their suppliers allow returns without question. They must crank in cost recovery to allow for customers who try to return product they themselves have broken.
Finally, the Amazon business model is environmentally unsound. All product returned to Amazon is discarded regardless of reason for return and that cost is absorbed by the supplier who sells through Amazon. Then that discarded product is “recycled” by businesses set up just for that purpose. Who knows how and where that like new (or maybe not) recycled product hits the market.
The World is steadily going crazy. Just shop at your LHS. They know all about all of these problems and their prices reflect the work they do that you don’t have to do.
At train shows Enginehouse Services of Green Bay WI has a sign that they post: that they inspect every locomotive before selling it and reject and send back somewhere around 15%. Then the sign says “we have no idea what is done with those rejected locomotives” (I paraphrase here but that is the essential point of the message).
There was and perhaps still is a large midwestern hobby shop, which I shall not name, which was known for outrageously low prices for the latest locomotives but also rolling stock and structures - at Trainfest those of us in the know would try to get to the head of the waiting line and when doors opened at 9 am we and a few dozen others would race for where we knew their booth would be (that was back when Trainfest kept the same floor plan year after year, now they mix it up).
There was a wide circulated rumor which I have no reason to disbelieve but cannot verify, that they had “sources” which got them “gray market” packaged trains which had in fact been rejected by someone - the manufacturer/importer itself, distributors, hobby shops, whatever. All I know is, nobody but nobody could touch their prices - or the lines at their booth.
I myself only bought structure kits from them and since I kitbash nearly every structure kit I build I guess I never noticed if there were things missing that should have been there.
In a similar boat here Kevin. Nearest train store is an hour drive one way away. They also have pretty limited hours, so if I leave as soon as I get out of work, I’ll arrive right about the time they are locking their doors. Next nearest one is 1.5 hrs away. Same issue. My saturdays are usually filled with other, dare I say, more important things that have to be done. Mail order for me too.
Wouldn’t think it means “sell broken stuff”. And most stuff isn’t discounted any deeper than anybody else. But like I said, I’m not blaming TW and I’ll continue to buy normally. Just curious if anybody else has noticed and what could be the cause.
Part of the reason that I shop mail order is that two of the LHS I used to patron wouldn’t allow anybody to open the box…including themselves. Said the items are too fragile and packed too tightly to the point where they damaged items themselves in the past taking them out of the packaging.
They allowed returns, and sent anything the customer found to be defective back to the producer.
I figured if I could not look at the item or run it, why not just order online.
I can’t imagine a high volume dealer like TW having employees removing every item out of the factory packaging to see if a grab iron or something is missing.
Myself and family have been dealing with Trainworld for decades. I have received many Christmas gifts purchased from them. My problems are with Walther’s products starting with 130’ TT, freight cars, structures and locomotives. None of the issues I experienced can be blamed on Trainworld. Spanning four decades, Athearn issues amounted to warped trucks on a pair of SD70 locomotives which they promptly replaced years ago. I was able to fix nearly all of the Walthers issues across the board except the early version of the 130’ TT which I gave up on. I will continue to buy from Trainworld as LHS in my area are very limited and none can compare to the old AB Charles Hobby Shop. Mr C. as I called him was one of a kind…Rest in Peace!
Keep in mind these engines were made in China, shipped to the US in a shipping container on a seagoing freighter, taken by rail or truck from the US port to the company (Athearn, Atlas, etc.) who then unpacked the container’s contents, repacked the items to go to the various retailers, and shipped them via UPS, FedEx, USPS or whoever. Seems like plenty of opportunities for damage before the item gets to the retailer.
Heck, the last new loco I bought, I struggled for a whiel trying to figure out how to get the darn thing out of the box,. Finally realized they ran a screw up fromt he bottom into some holders. Said screw was up insuide a plastic molded part, no screw head visibile. And no “how to open this” instructions were in the box (the operating instructions weren’t even correct, they were for a previous run with a different decoder - the functions are the same, but the CV to change horns - not even close between the versions - Atlas take note! They don’t even have correct instructions on their web site yet, and it’s been more than 2 months - and they’ve also released more locos witht he newer decoder, which STILL come with incorrect instructions). That one actually came from TW. Who knows what happens along the way (luckily it’s not a long trip to me), but I know my local UPS guy doesn’t throw packages around when he drops things off. Besides the nearly impenetrable Atlas box (even when intentially trying to get it open - at least now I know and I will be able to open the second one much easier), TW had that packaged in an outer box which had very thick walls, with padding around the factory box. It would have taken some severe handling to damage anything. No parts were missing or loose.