I notice that the 4-4-2’s shell in the Target set is slightly different than others in that it has tha marker lights not on top of the shell, but down in the front of the shell near the headlight. It looks better that way too.
Jim
Lionel and all 3 rail O gauge track is refered to as 027 (27" dia), 031 (31" dia), 042 (42" dia) etc. and it is meaused Out side rail to Out side rail, not center rail. It has always been dia. and not radius.
Spanky,
You must not have read the memo. FasTrack is not measured the “old way.”
036 FasTrack makes a circle 36 inches in diameter, center rail to center rail. Over all it measures 39.5 inches from the outside of the ballast to the outside of the ballast on the other side. I just measured it.
If you still won’t believe me, check out some of “lionelsoni’s” posts on the subject on this forum.
For anyone planning a layout inside a wall or guard rail, be sure to all add some extra for the possible over-hang, the extent of which depends on exactly what equipment you use.
In the future, if you want to contradict my posts, you are welcome to do so. If I am wrong I will cheerfully admit it. But if you are going to decorate your flaming posts with all that colorful emphasis, you might consider having your facts right.
Edited 12/12/07 to correct typo
Actually, you would have been better off to have left that last part off that I highlighted up there .
csxt30,
No doubt. When did you get back? Did you forget? You’re supposed to Ignore, Ignore, Ignore.
BF Skinner is right though on FasTrack, that even though Lionel calls it an 036 curve, one has to consider the added width of the molded trackbed, which I believe brings it to 42 inches overall. An important point for certain, but I was trying to keep things simple (which I sometimes have a hard time doing, right! Ha ha).
Without going into a big thing, I personally like the look of the tubular 027 track. Especially on a small layout, it doesn’t take up all the added space. Ties and ballast can economically added to 027 track, making it look much better. Plus I like the visual effect of not having the track be such a demanding visual presense, as is any track on a molded raised plastic roadbed. But that’s a matter of taste. As one who has built several small layouts over the years, I prefer 027 track to FasTrack for the tighter curves and less dominating visual appearance.
All that aside, FasTrack has its own advantages - and it is what you get in a current production Lionel set. So unless one is going to leave it for the under-the-tree layout and use something else for the layout, we might as well assume many will use FasTrack on their layouts.
Overhang is another issue entirely, and probably more pertinant when discussing 027 track, but certainly is not exclusive to that track alone. Overhang is to be more considered when actually building a layout and placing buidlings and scenery - ie: how close can that junction tower building be to the curve without the train hitting it when it goes by?
FasTrack is NOT a solid rail, but a folded rail made from sheet metal (as the other tubular track types) only with the rails placed into the molded plastic roadbed, rather than individual sheet metal ties.
Oh, BF : I must have forgotten, and how elequently you write stuff !! Someone has to keep their eye on you !! [(-D][(-D]
Thanks, John
Hey guys, in the spirit of the Holidays, I say we just hug it out.
I’m glad that Lionel offers more than just the 4-4-2 in their starter sets- the Jr. Berkshire and 0-6-0 Docksider are definitely a breath of fresh air, and alot more detailed as well. I’m sure the Jr. Hudson, now offered with a Trainsounds tender, will eventually make its way into a starter set of some sort sooner or later.
Geno
Do we know how many variations Lionel has had for its starter kits and how many different starter kits are put out each year?
This year during Thanksgiving holidays I have saw six different variations…three passenger and three freight…at Hobby Lobby, Target and Menards…all in the Midwest.
What have you seen, where and how much?
TMT
TMT,
Just look in the Lionel 2007 volume 2 and you can count how many starter sets use the 4-4-2 engine- I counted five sets. The Docksider has been in three sets so far, not counting separate-sale items. And the Jr. Berk (slightly modified) is in two sets this year.
In my area, Target only had those ‘Super sets’- really basic no frills train sets. Macy’s was selling the Hogwart’s Express, PE, and Pennsy Flyer sets and recently blew them out for 50% off.
Lionel obviously is getting good use out of its tooling on these three engines.
Geno
LOL…the only way one learns is to ask questions.
I have looked but cannot find the 20 count strings…any suggestions where to look?
Thanks
TMT
Maybe it’s time to re-visit the nomenclature. I couldn’t find the term “starter set” in the Lionel 2007 catalog, although it may well be in there somewhere. Lionel has a large section on what they call “Ready to Run” sets. These include trains that vary widely in cost, ruggedness, and general playability. They can’t all be “starter” sets in the sense that they are appropriate for all children regardless of age.
For example, although I am giving my granddaughter a Hogwarts Express, and although I consider it to be a fine set, I do not really think it is a “starter” set, even at her age, almost 8, although she already has more than two years experience running my trains.
First of all, the locomotive cannot be pushed by hand, which i something that little kids universally like to do. Second, it has a number of small, delicate detail-parts that are likely to quickly get broken off. I shudder to imagine how rough a boy of her age might be. To try to counter these perceived shortcomings, I plan to give her one of my postwar Lionels, maybe my 2035, which is much more “play” value and can be pushed. Further, I will give her a few hopper or gondola cars so that she, and her playmates, can give their “little friends” a ride.
Can any of the present crop of Lionel locos be pushed down the track by hand? I don’t know.
I would certainly have picked a different “starter” set, except for the fact that were it not for their interest in the Harry Potter stories, I wouldn’t have been able to slip a train set past the “war department,” if you get my meaning.
Of course these are only my opinions, and you are each welcome to voice your own.
I think the term starter set is used more or less correctly in regards to the HWX, the PE, and the Flyer sets, both catalogued and those sold in chain stores. All of those sets have an entry-level transformer, an oval of track, and some pretty basic locomotives. The price of these sets more or less reflects an entry level point as well.
Then there are the next level of sets that have more expensive components and more complicated features, but still come with track and a basic transformer.
The highest level of sets cost a pretty penny and are either sophisticated, detailed scale models or replicas of toy trains from the past made in limited numbers.
No matter which category you choose, or what you may label said category, young children really shouldn’t be left unsupervised with toy trains of this type. It never seems to end well for the train. I have 2 little boys that have proven this to me time after time after time.
And I think our new Lionel RS-3 diesel does roll when pushed. A very nice, inexpensive loco.
Jim
TMT, I’ve bought the 20-count light sets at both Wal-Mart and someplace else, Rite-Aid I believe. The 6-volt bulbs are perfect for replacement in trains that have truck mounted can motors and no digital control. These trains run well on lower voltages and the 6 volt bulbs work well in lighted cars, cabooses, etc.
Once you get going in this hobby there are so many money saving tricks. On my first layout I had something like 7 or 8 transformers because I had so many lights. The lights were mostly the standard 12 volt auto bulbs that have been used for decades in our 3-rail trains. Later, I started isolating the various buildings using power strips and started using the 3.5 volt CHRISTmas bulbs that come on standard mini-light chains. They use far less power, and draw far less amperage, so you can have more lights on one single transformer. You do need to use the main adjustable throttle controled setting of the transformer, and not the fixed voltage posts. And you need to use a transformer that starts with a zero output. The cheap bare bones basic K-Line starter set transfomer (of which I have many because I bought a good number of K-Line starter sets when I re-entered the hobby years ago) work perfect.
I’ve cut the number of transformers on my layout in half due to this change.
You’d be surprised at the things we throw away that can have use on a train layout. For example, whenever I have an electronics item, like a radio or CD player that no longer works, I pull it completely apart and save everything usable, like gears, gear drives, sometimes a motor, and screws. Go ahead and order small screws from a parts dealer and see what they cost… it adds up. I’ve been able to recycle a good many things for use on the train layout.
I was having some tough times a few years ago. I landed a part time job at a store that then went under. I picked up extra hours helping to tear the place apart. All the departments had signs that were made from good quality black styrene plastic…
Thanks for the info.
Considering that many people are watching this discussion, and buying for Christmas, could you SPECIFICALLY call out what STARTER SETS are the beginners, intermediate and highest level?
Please use the Lionel 2007 Train Catalog Volume 2 for your reference.
Are ANY of the Ready-To-Run Train Sets on pp. 22 - 49 considered to be BETTER sets?
What I am looking for is the BETTER quality Lionel STARTER SETS that might be sold at a big box store…and those big box stores I have access to through relatives is Target, Hobby Lobby and Menards…so are ANY of the set
[quote user=“brianel027”]
TMT, I’ve bought the 20-count light sets at both Wal-Mart and someplace else, Rite-Aid I believe. The 6-volt bulbs are perfect for replacement in trains that have truck mounted can motors and no digital control. These trains run well on lower voltages and the 6 volt bulbs work well in lighted cars, cabooses, etc.
Once you get going in this hobby there are so many money saving tricks. On my first layout I had something like 7 or 8 transformers because I had so many lights. The lights were mostly the standard 12 volt auto bulbs that have been used for decades in our 3-rail trains. Later, I started isolating the various buildings using power strips and started using the 3.5 volt CHRISTmas bulbs that come on standard mini-light chains. They use far less power, and draw far less amperage, so you can have more lights on one single transformer. You do need to use the main adjustable throttle controled setting of the transformer, and not the fixed voltage posts. And you need to use a transformer that starts with a zero output. The cheap bare bones basic K-Line starter set transfomer (of which I have many because I bought a good number of K-Line starter sets when I re-entered the hobby years ago) work perfect.
I’ve cut the number of transformers on my layout in half due to this change.
You’d be surprised at the things we throw away that can have use on a train layout. For example, whenever I have an electronics item, like a radio or CD player that no longer works, I pull it completely apart and save everything usable, like gears, gear drives, sometimes a motor, and screws. Go ahead and order small screws from a parts dealer and see what they cost… it adds up. I’ve been able to recycle a good many things for use on the train layout.
I was having some tough times a few years ago. I landed a part time job at a store that then went under. I picked up extra hours helping to tear the place apart. All the departments had signs that were made from good quality
Another question…what quality is the "Great Western Train Set " from Lionel?
Beginner, intermediate or high grade?
TMT
If this hasn’t been mentioned on this post before, consider your local Linens ‘n’ Things.
When I was last in one – about ten days ago – they had STACKS of the (apparently, rather standardized) PF at 199.99 and battery-operated O gauge at 149.99.
Also a booster set to turn, I guess, the PF into a passenger set. The cheaper of the two sets is already in a “Polar Express” mode. - al