I’m new here; I originally posted this in the Model Railroader General Discussion forum, but I was informed they don’t often discuss Lionel there, so this would probably be a better forum to ask my question. I hope you don’t mind if I pick your collective brains with a question. This post will be long so I can give all relevant details; I apologize in advance. A little background: I’ve had a Lionel 8632 PA Flyer since the 90s, so while I’m not exactly a total newbie, I’m also not fully up on all the lingo for various train parts and whatnot.
I recently inherited two other Lionels upon the death of my grandmother. One is the Lionel 681 with the 2046W-50 Pennsylvania whistling tender from the 50s that was my grandfather’s when he was young. It still runs great, including working headlight, except the smoke stack doesn’t seem to be working (I think it might be clogged–it has build-up–and I also need to buy the smoke tablets, if they’re even still manufactured). So my question isn’t about the 681. The other Lionel I inherited is an 8901 (& 8902 dummy) Pennsylvania Double A Alcos (I’m assuming you can probably guess which state I’m from, lol) from 1988. This is the one my question is about: After I hooked everything up, it seemed to run great, except it was locked into forward, so I couldn’t go into neutral or reverse; easy enough, I flipped the E-Unit switch and all seemed good. However, after two or three days of seemingly running fine, now any time power is interrupted for any reason, whether it’s because I turned it off, there was a car derailment or I press the direction button on the TrainMaster KW transformer I also inherited, the locomotive simply will not move for a period of time. It’s like it gets stuck in neutral, which also means no more reverse. I hoped if I switched the E-Unit switch back so I can only go forward–I figured only forward was better than it just sitting in neutral any time power was inter
A couple of things. First off, you may have a grouchy E-unit in your ALCO. I’m assuming this is the old-style electromechanical E-unit. Assuming there’s nothing mechanically wrong with it it may just need a good cleaning. I’ve used electrical contact cleaner spray, available in most hardware stores, and had good results, the E-units I’ve used it on came back to life with no problem.
For the other performance issues I’d try cleaning the wheels and pick-up rollers. Both can get gunked up over time for various reasons. I’ve had some goofy-acting locomotives come right back after a good wheel cleaning.
Goes without saying lubricate the axles and gears. There’s a drive worm gear on the motor that may need fresh grease, but if you don’t know how to remove the motor to get at it don’t try. See below.
There may be some motor issues, a possibility since the locomotive is 30 years old. I’m not going to describe how to do a tear-down and cleaning of the motors and risk getting you in trouble. It’s not hard to do IF you know how to do it or have someone looking over your shoulder who does, but if you don’t…
Check with a local hobby shop (if you have one) and see if they have any Lionel repair guides. If they don’t, there’s an outstanding Lionel repair video available from TM Books and Videos. https://www.tmbv.com Search “Maintenance & Repair Guide for Lionel Electric Trains & Accessories.” It’s $9.95 and worth it’s weight in gold, trust me! Everything you need to know, including E-unit repair, but to their credit they don’t make E-unit repair look easy, 'cause it ain’t! It’s a last resort as far as I’m concerned although others may tell you differently.
Try the cleaning route first, that may be all that’s nee
This seems to be the locomotive you have. It has an electronic ‘E’ unit, which sounds like it has gone bad. Replace the unit, part #103-1 and proper operation will return. Do the cleaning and lubrication as noted above and you should be all set.
I agree with the solid state circuit theory, I believe Lionel had dropped mechanical E-Units as standard by 1988.
As far as the 681 goes, stack looks something like this?
Bust through it with a pointy stick and rub away as much of the build-up as you can and you should be fine. To clean the wick, put a few drops of acetone or acetone based nail polish remover on it and let it run. The wick will heat up and the acetone will burn off any build-up.
Sorry Penny but NO NO NO pointy anything. You can cut the heater core. The crust will melt with heat. Turn it upside down and try a lighter, smoke fluid can be used instead of pellets.
Be careful using a pointy stick down the smokestack. Go too far down and you can break the thin, fragile nichrome wire of the smoke element. Use a blunt end wooden stick. Put the loco in neutral and turn up the voltage. If the heater is good, the pellet material will melt down into the smoke element. When it is melted, run the loco and you should get plenty of smoke.
Be careful using acetone around our trains. It will melt many plastics and dissolve the paint on them. I use and recommend Naphtha. It is an excellent cleaner and degreaser and it is safe for use on all surfaces.
Thank you everyone for all the suggestions and guidance. And yes, Larry, that is exactly the AA Alco locomotive I have. I had previously removed the shell to check if there were any visibly loose wires or anything when I started having these issues and it does, indeed, have the electronic E-unit as shown in that diagram. I have tried using a little track cleaner liquid I have to clean the pick-up rollers, but it didn’t make a difference. I’m going to go to a local hobby/train shop tomorrow to get some gear & wheel lubricants and perhaps some other kind of cleaning fluid, so with any luck I can get them to test run my locomotive and see if they have any ideas (I’m pretty sure they do repairs).
Also, yep, Penny, the 681 smokestack looks similar to that, but not quite as bad. I’ll try some of the suggestions to unclog it, avoiding anything pointy, and put some of the smoke fluid from my 8632 into it. I didn’t know if I could use fluid instead of the pellets, so I appreciate the info. Thanks again everyone for the suggestions. Much appreciated! -Dwayne
I have a little bit of an update, if anyone is still reading this thread & interested! [:)] I went to a local train/hobby shop today with hopes of purchasing a replacement bulb for my 8902 dummy AA Alco locomotive (which, thanks to the link of the diagram of parts for “Twin Motored Alco Units, 1-8901 & 1-8903” Larry provided, I know is replacement lamp #161-300), but naturally, as my luck would have it, he didn’t carry the bulb, but can order it for me. However, while there, I also purchased a squeeze bottle of Excelle Lubricants NLGI #2 PTFE Grease and XL Light Conductive Model Penetrating Oil. And even though you fine people told me I didn’t need to (and I do believe you), I did purchase a bottle of smoke pellets (not Lionel; made by Trainz.com in Buford, GA), because he had them, so why not. He said they’re not always easy to come by, and not cheap ($15 for a small bottle, which I don’t think is expensive), so he doesn’t always have them in stock. I told him several very train-knowledgeable people told me I could just use the smoke fluid from my 8632, but he cautioned me not to do it. I assume he just wanted to add another item to my sale, lol.
Lastly, his store is not listed on Lionel’s website as an authorized service center, just an authorized dealer. His own website didn’t even mention service/repairs. However, I held out hope, so before I left, I packed up my '88 Alcos in their original box and set out. This time, my luck turned around: he
If I recall, there are 6 wires on the board. Most need to be soldered, and I believe one has a small wire nut for connection. If you can solder, you can replace the board. Pop the old board out of the plastic carrier, pop the new one in, solder the wires and you’re done.
Hey Larry, thanks for the reply. I can solder. In fact, I just bought a soldering iron a few weeks ago, because the 2046W-50 PA whistling coal tender I received had the wire from the whistle motor to the pick-up roller broken off. I soldered it back on and it came right back to life. Yes, it does, indeed, have 6 wires connected to the actual board: one black, one red, one brown-ish grey and one actual grey; and then a blue wire & white wire from the board itself to the e-unit direction switch. The soldering isn’t a problem, I’m more “worried” about the wiring itself, because there are, it looks like, 10 wires total under there, but only those aforementioned 6 on the actual e-unit board. I know two of them are the headlight, but I’m not entirely sure what the other two are for, so maybe after I watch some YouTube videos or similar on Lionel wiring I’ll better understand and feel more confident attempting to replace the e-unit myself. I know I technically only need to solder the existing wires onto the new board in the same configuration they’re attached to the current board, but I’d still like to know what everything does. Thanks for taking the time to reply, Larry.
As already written You DO Not need smoke pellets. A few drops of smoke fluid is all you need. Watch as the pellet heats, it turns into a liquid. The guy just added to his sale. If you have any ability at all replacing the E-Unit is an easy do.
