Okay, I’m just curious. I read in MR that Division Point models will be coming out with two 5-car versions of the Rio Grande “Prospector” passenger train within the next year–the original black and yellow stripe version and the later Aspen gold version.
I’d give my eyeteeth to get hold of the earlier black and yellow version. Have any of you had any dealings with Division Point? And if so, any comments? I’d really like to know before I make an investment by reserving one.
Tom [:D]
Twhite
Only going by what I’ve seen and read DP should be one of the 3 top importers quality wise. their normal builder is Boo-Rim of Korea…
If you have the Brass Train Guide Book by Dan Glasure on page 210 theres a nice interview with Jack Vansworth the owner along with some photos.
I myself can’t afford their prices but from the pictures i’ve seen they import some absolutely beautiful models.
This CNR Pacific, belonging to a friend, is from Division Point. He brought it out to my place to run for it for the first time. The detail is the best I’ve seen on a brass steamer, with operating cab doors and roof hatches. Even the whistle cord was in place. The drivers (all of the wheels in fact) are superbly rendered. All of the solder joints seem to be solid, and the paint is impeccable. It ran flawlessly right out of the box. It’s almost completely silent, with no extraneous noise from the gearbox, siderods, or valve gear, and only a low hum from the motor. It tracked well in either direction, and it was fascinating to watch that trailing truck as it worked its way over the Atlas turnouts. I would rate its running qualities as good as or better than any HO scale locomotive, steam or diesel, that I’ve seen running.
He recently bought this Division Point CNR Northern (after cancelling his pre-ordered one from TrueLine). While it’s very nicely done, I don’t find it up the the standards of the Pacific detail-wise (although it is, admittedly, a model of a less “busy” prototype) and it doesn’t run anywhere near as nicely as the Pacific. Its longer driver wheelbase seemed not too comfortable with my curves, all of which were 34" or greater, or with the turnouts, all #6 or larger. I have noticed that many brass locos, particularly those with four or five sets of drivers, have trouble with some Atlas turnouts, although I’ve traced much of that to frogs which where slightly high. With some tweaking, it may improve.
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Tom,
I have not had any personal dealings with DP but I did see one of their models at a train show a couple of years ago. I didn’t see it run but the detailing was drop-dead gorgeous.
I’m sure the cars will probably run in the $300-$400 range each and be absolutely beautiful. When it’s something that you’re 99 & 44/100s sure it will never be made in plastic, these once in a lifetime opportunities can be tempting.
I’m still hoping that MTH will be releasing the '40 version of the 20th Century cars. (Or, BLI will step up to the plate and get it done.) A cost for a set of five cars from MTH may pay for one of the brass cars you are interested in. LOL!
Tom
Tom, Wayne, Texas:
I have a feeling that they’re going to be VERY pricey–their two-car Yampa Valley Mail goes for about $1100, so that’s about $550 per car–and the “Prospector” is a 5-car set—OUCH!!! [:O]
But ya know–I ain’t ever gonna see that train in plastic with that color scheme (that fits my black and yellow Rio Grande F-3’s to a ‘T’, and would make my brass PFM Rio Grande 4-6-2 an EXTREMELY Happy Camper) short of me painting and decalling whatever Walthers or Branchline cars I could find that might–and I say MIGHT–pass for the Real Thing.
What the hey–considering what I’ve heard about Division Point from you guys and several other people, I think I’ll bite.
Now if they just come out before I get to that Big Railroad in the Sky, I’ll be a Happy Camper. Something about 2012 release date.
Thanks for the information about the company, though.
I think I’ll bite on this one.
Tom [:D]
I actually hunted down and purchased the Division Point “Royal Gorge” that they did a couple years ago. It is also a 5 car set, plus I purchased the extra car so I can make the Yampa, the Royal Gorge, or the Prospector. For the most part they look wonderful. The first “looks” thing that I found I didn’t like was on the observation car. The marker lamps are little bumps that are painted flat red. No jewels no place to put a real bulb or LED. Going to have to cut and dirll and do a lot of work to get working marker lamps.
Anyway, Had I just put them in the display case everything would have been fine. Unfortunately I took them out to run. Even went and purchased a special set of locomotives to pull them. Everyone oohed and ahhhed as I put them on the track. Several pictures were taken, but then apply the power and I could not get them to run more than a few feet. I soon discovered that the problem was short circuits. Didn’t matter if it was straight or curved. The wheel sets touched everything and shorted. I tried all the normal fixes. Put tape on the frame over the wheels, got clear nail polish to touch around the frame and other places the wheels could touch. I was very embarassed because I never got the set to run even a single lap. I’m going to have to go to plastic wheels or d
Texas:
Oboy, that kind of bothers me–about the cars shorting out.
This latest Division Point “Prospector” is the older Pullman Standard version of 1948, not the streamlined version of 1950. Evidently the train only ran in black and yellow for a couple of years, then was replaced by ex C&O and Pere Marquette streamlined equipment. What got me interested in the '48 version was several photographs of the cars in Lucius Beebe’s book RIO GRANDE, MAINLINE OF THE ROCKIES. I thought the black and yellow scheme was really interesting, especially as applied to ‘modernized’ Pullman Standard equipment.
I think I’ll still reserve one–hopefully the shorting problem might have been solved by now.
Tom
You probably thought of this, but the first thing to my mind regarding the shorting is the possibility of a mis-mounted axle. One end is hot and the other insulated. It would take only one swapped axle to shut down the entire train. It might also be worthwhile to check each insulated wheel/axle for faulty insulation. Again, it takes only one.
Tom, do you have FTs with boiler-equipped B unit to pull the Prospector?
Mark:
Nope, not FT’s. F-3’s in the early black and yellow with a boiler-equipped B. However, I think I’ll probably assign the train to my PFM P-44 Pacific and my Key K-59 Mike doubleheaded like the Rio Grande did before they re-laid heavier rail on the Moffat Line to accommodate heavier power.
I got the F-3’s to power my BLI California Zephyr train, but I hate to admit that all of that pretty silver kinda/sorta bores me. I think I’ll put the Zephyr cars on E-Bayto help fund the Prospector and use the F-3’s for something else. Don’t know quite WHAT yet, though.
Tom [:D]
Tom
My experience with DVP started with the NKP Berkshires and the NP and SP&S Z8 models. I am very happy with the quality of their products but do not own any passenger cars, just locomotives and cabooses. I would have to say that their quality is unsurpassed in the brass world for my money. The down side is their products are very expensive but I consider all of them worth the money.
CaZephyr:
Though I’m not a big Berkshire fan, that is a beautiful looking model. But that Z-8 is positively DROOL-inducing [:P]
Lucky you!
BTW: Picked up a PFM GN 2-6-8-0 for an absolutely bargain basement price–couldn’t pass it up, even though I don’t model GN. Using it as a WWII ‘loaner’, LOL. Very sweet locomotive though. Runs quite nice. Very strange reduction gear, though.
Tom [:D]
The only Division Pt product I own is a Rio Grande 01400 series rivited caboose which cost me $220 clams. Originally I purchased two but when they arrived, I found the look of them had some issues. First thing I noticed was to offer the “sealed window” version of the 60’s, they used a brass insert into the rectangular window hole. While technically this is what the prototype did, the insert was quite deep and didn’t match the look of the prototype very well. For $220, I’d expect the windows to look as good or better than the much older Overland version I own. The window had the rain gutters mounted above and they were somewhat crooked. Also the roof was a bit droopey on the ends on one model. I returned one model and used the money to obtain a painted rived Overland caboose. Quality and windows should have been better done.
I’ve seen photo’s of the Div Pt Prospector passenger cars and they look gorgeous. I’d be hugely disappointed if they couldn’t be run - geez for $550 they should look good and roll without shorts!
But the heavyweight Prospector started in October 1945 and the D&RGW didn’t begin acquiring F3s until 1947. … Must admit the train would look better behind steam locos as I’m not an FT fan.
From what I read in Wikilpedia, the Prospector was just regular Pullman Standard between 1945 and 1948 when it was repainted in black and yellow for what seems to be a fairly short time until the Aspen gold scheme was adopted. So I assume that by then an F-3 could probably have made its way onto the train as power. I don’t know, though. Photographs of the black and yellow train seem to be rare as hen’s teeth, at least from what I’ve been able to find.
But I agree with you, I think steam would look better hauling those cars, especially since my 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 already run together very smoothly (older PFM, newer Key). And I’ve got lots of photos showing them doubleheaded up the Moffat Line with various and sundry passenger trains. They look VERY cool together!
Tom
Tom, for what it’s worth, this is what Division Point says: “In 1946, the Rio Grande instituted the “Prospector”, an overnight train between Denver and Salt Lake City. The creation of Trustee and President Wilson McCarthy, it proved that good things could come in small packages and the the “Grande” was perfectly capable of serving businessmen! The Prospector was often led by the D&RGW’s FT sets equipped with B-unit boilers. The cars originally modified for Exposition Flyer service were re-painted in the black and gold of the diesel cab sets. In later years, the Prospector was pulled by aspen gold and silver F3 sets.”
Thanks for the suggestion. I don’t think so but I’ll have another look next time I get them out. I can say that they did not have to be all coupled together to short.
Yes.
On the basis of their commitment to accuracy for the SP&S Z-8, I will not be buying any more of their products.
Ed
I purchased their Soo Line Mikado and thought it was quite a nice model. I own a decent number of brass steam engines and for the price (around $1,000), I thought the level of detail was excellent.
Ed:
Just curious–what were the problems?
Tom