I spent the better part of this past Sunday upgrading my IHC heavyweights (I know, I know, they’re pretty awful compared to other cars available, but they’re good practice).
Having installed metal wheel sets, Kadee 148’s (those #%^*$ springs!), and weight (I added bb’s to the floor cavities and poured tacky glue over them), I found they ran pretty good, even on 22” r on my practice layout, although they look goofy due to overhang.
However, that gap between cars is hideous. After searching the forum, I deduced that only IHC diaphragms will fit. Is this the case, and if so, do they work without interfering with operation? My guess is that they’ll work fine on larger radii but will have issues with anything less than 24”. Are the diaphragms soft or hard plastic?
I’ll eventually move on to better quality passenger cars, but for now, these are good guinea pigs.
(1) IHC DIAPHRAMS are hard, and (2) Better cars won’t cure the problem. (3) As long as you combine full-length passenger cars on UNREALISTIC curves (22"r) it won’t happen. You need 46"PLUS r. to do. AFTER you carve out a wall to make room, you can use KD#33 Couplers (no diaphrams) to shorten that distance between cars. 85’ passenger cars (with diaphrams) will look prototypical on straight-aways - untill you hit a curve. Best answer is to use ‘N’ gauge on those 22"r curves if you want to run them. YOU picked the 22" track and 4 X 8 foot boards to run on. UNTIL we can buy a REAL RR, we all have to accept the dimensional realities of playing with toy trains indoors. 22" CURVES are better suited to 40’ cars. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) IHC DIAPHRAMS are hard, and (2) Better cars won’t cure the problem. (3) As long as you combine full-length passenger cars on UNREALISTIC curves (22"r) it won’t happen. You need 46"PLUS r. to do. AFTER you carve out a wall to make room, you can use KD#33 Couplers (no diaphrams) to shorten that distance between cars. 85’ passenger cars (with diaphrams) will look prototypical on straight-aways - untill you hit a curve. Best answer is to use ‘N’ gauge on those 22"r curves if you want to run them. UNTIL we can buy a REAL RR, we all have to accept the dimensional realities of playing with toy trains indoors. 22" CURVES are better suited to 40’ cars. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:“…However, that gap between cars is hideous… I deduced that only IHC diaphragms will fit…Are the diaphragms soft or hard plastic? (1) IHC DIAPHRAMS are hard, and (2) Better cars won’t cure the problem. (3) As long as you combine full-length passenger cars on UNREALISTIC curves (22"r) it won’t happen. You need 46"PLUS r. to do. AFTER you carve out a wall to make room, you can use KD#33 Couplers (no diaphrams) to shorten that distance between cars. 85’ passenger cars (with diaphrams) will look prototypical on straight-aways - untill you hit a curve. Best answer is to use ‘N’ gauge on those 22"r curves if you want to run them. UNTIL we can buy a REAL RR, we all have to accept the dimensional realities of playing with toy trains indoors. 22” CURVES are better suited to 40’ cars. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure what happened here but I assume Don’s replies were locked because they “ran away” and posted 3 times.
Anyway, I don’t intend to run these long cars on 22" r - that’s just my practice layout. Eventually I’ll complete my real layout and they’ll run on a much larger radius - not 46" but a compromise between 32" and 36", probably. I know they may still look a little funny, but they should work.
I’m just trying to understand if the diaphragms will work at all and what options I have. If choosing shorter cars is the right answer, so be it - these IHC’s are the only passenger cars I have right now and I’m just getting my feet wet. Thanks for the advice.
They are not operating diapragms, but if you want operating diaphragms I would suggest looking into the American Limited Diaphragms. That is what I use and love 'em!! They have a couple of different styles of striker plates if you are trying to get prototype specific (although they don’t have the variety of striker plates that Hi Tech Details have, but those diaphragms are more of a hastle than they are worth to me).
If you really want to go all out, you can get you some of the Darwin coupler pockets from The Coach Yard. They are adjustable pockets, so you would be able to adjust the distance between cars quickly when needed. I use them on a couple of cars and really like them. They can be a pain to install, but after you install a couple, it isn’t too bad.
Would the “Rivarossi and other HW’s” (item # 9200) be the right diaphragm for the IHC?
Also, will I end up with a “bum in a new suit” or will this be worth the effort - even if just to gain the experience? I realize these are pretty cheap cars but I enjoy the tinkering.
Smitty is right on. For OPERATING DIAPHRAMS American Ltd. are the best. They key word here is “operating”. Diaphrams add length, therefor create the need for more spacing to offset the excessive ‘play’ between cars on tight curves. In short, ‘working’ diaphrams fill-in that space. It seems that ‘diaphrams’ can ‘look’ good on the cars, but only as long as they don’t they hinder movement between cars. The BEST compromise is to have 36"-48" curves, by using wall & room corners. Alternates are to use Talgo trucks, shorty cars, NO diaphrams - and sometimes a combination of all 3. Like Athearn.
What’s up with that Don? They like locking you out today. Have you been playing dirty again?[:o)][;)]
Anyhow, sorry about not responding earlier. Don made some excellent points. They would work fine for you. Just be very careful when removing parts from the sprues because you don’t get extra parts. Don’t be discouraged if you break a thing or two when you start with these things. I still occasionally break parts and have been through quite a few of them. Since you enjoy tinkering, you should enjoy putting these together. You are starting down the right path by starting with some inexpensive cars to gain experience. If you are gonna mess something up, this is where to do it. Once honed, move on to the good stuff.
I would not worry too much about getting the striker plates correct. I would wait to get prototype specific once you start working with “higher end” cars.
Thanks for all the good advice. I think I may give the American Limited’s a try. My layout plan calls for some broad curves for the passenger line - I’ll take another look at it to make sure they’re broad enough.
You’re right about messing things up here, as long as I learn from my mistakes. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Don - maybe you should contact Bergie to see what’s going on with your posts.
jblackwelljr: IF YOU are using IHC cars, why not just put Walthers’ diaphrams on them? They’re cheap, and allow the car ends to move laterally. One size fits all. They don’t function or look exactly like the real thing, but neither do the cars. 22" R is the default standard for simple 4X8 layouts. A HELIX requires figuring % of grade and is a MANS’s layout (See Brunton). He’s probably living in the Garage right now. 22"r is do-able for single track - no side swiping to worry about - and can be made from 4X8 ply-boards. Computation of the grade is key. ‘Dirty Don’
I don’t use IHC cars. I use Walther’s cars, cars built from brass car sides (primarily NKP Car Company) with Train Station Products core kits and detail parts, Train Station Products passenger cars, Union Station Products sides, and some brass cars. I do not care for the diaphragms that come with the Walther’s cars at all. I have found that the shim included for the American Limited diaphragms that are designed for the Walther’s cars sets the diaphragm too far out. The striker plate is beyond the face of the coupler, thus requiring some coupler adjustments. I am going to install a pair without the shim next time a Walther’s car comes through the “shop”.
I have also given the Train Station Products working diaphragms a shot a couple of times and have found that they aren’t all that great.
Smitty: Got you and original poster mixed up. Corrected. Sorry. I had my Stewart FTs ‘fitted’ for diaphams, and they take 1 1/2 American for close fit. ‘Dirty’ Don.