Do military bases-- say a supply depot-- ever permit right-of-way to railroads not necessarily delivering to the base? In other words, if a railroad was headed toward a base (or else the base was built near / over the railroad), could it be plausibly possible that there would be an elevated portion of the railroad over the base (Supply depot) in one side and out the other ??
John
It wouldn’t be unusual for a railroad to have a right-of-way passing through a military base. The usual scenario was that the railroad existed before the base. For example, the nearby former naval weapons depot near me had four railroads passing through it: Southern Pacific, ATSF, Sacramento Northern, and a shortline whose name I can’t recall at this moment.
Mark
Excellent! Thanks for the info. I’ve been planning a military depot for my layout that’s much larger than I could ever model, even reasonably in the space I have. So I’ve been looking for ways to contain the view so that it looks good without viewers wondering “where’s the rest of it?”. I now have a completely plausible answer for that. (See my “How to Cram in a Military Depot” thread here: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/173922/1915257.aspx#1915257 for more info).
In my mind, I am envisioning another railroad weaving through the scene and it dawned on me that if it could bisect the base near the backdrop that would be a really convenient way of establishing the view block and getting the raised-level (other) track that I wanted into the scene. I think this is going to work out well!
John
The track would be raised if and only if the track would have been raised without the military base there. They wouldn’t build a bridge over a military base. If the base was built down in a valley and the railraod crossed the valley on a bridge, then the railroad would go over the base. If the base was level terrain than the railroad would be on grade, that is on the ground, with a fence line on either side of it. In most cases the railroad predates the base, so its not a matter of the railroad cutting through the base as it is a matter of the base being laid on top of the railroad.
I understand your point and the difference you’re suggesting. In my thinking it out, I have another railroad I’d like to bisect the yard which is way before the military depot. So that track goes back to (essentially) the backdrop, up on a ridge, and winds its way on around. So when it comes to the military base, its already at the higher level. So the thought (my thinking) is that the military base was established after the railroad and that somehow, between the base and/or the railroad, the bridge was added to permit the military access to the area on the other side of the railroad. Its not raised so it can go over the base, but rather its already raised and the bridge was added for access/convenience of the base personnel.
Is that plausible do you think?
Another data point - the Lake State Railway (former MC/NYC) ROW runs through Camp Grayling in northern MI. Fun fact: this is also the location of a prototype reversing loop. [:)]
The submarine base in Groton CT has a railroad that goes through it. I don’t know how often it passes through but the rails are always shining.
We have a forner AT&SF line the bisects my Air Force base, many years ago it was relocated atop a fill as part of a grade crossing reduction plan, but overheads from 50+ ago show not only this trackage at ground level, but also a Pacific Electric spur skirting the extreme southern end of the base. It is interesting how the line was raised, they simply elevated the line for half a mile to install a through grider bridge over a major street and tolerated the severe 2% + grades on either side that resulted.
Virtually abandoned as a through route, its only purpose for existing is for the storage of baretables, in fact BNSF technically no longer owns the route, although BNSF continues to inspect and mainatin it, but leases it from the county who purchased the line for inclusion into future light rail developement.
Dave
Sounds very plausible to me. I have seen situations as you describe here in NYS.
Thanks for all your answers, much appreciated!
Maybe you can help me with one more related question. I posted it back in my original thread but so far either nobody’s seen it or else nobody who has seen it knows…
My question from the other thread:
… to have the service (holding) yard “disappear” off the edge of the layout. Then the modeled portion could be “Building Group ‘A’” or whatever of the overall facility. That solves the whole problem of it only being a small-ish portion actually modeled whilst the remainder of the facility is “off-stage” beyond the end of the yard.
I think that would allow me to ship a large volume of traffic “to the facility”, which of course just disappears through the wall into staging, except for the stuff destined for “Bldg Group ‘A’” where I can setup some transloading warehouses, tanker facilties, TOFC loading, team tracks, power-house, etc. It would look more or less like a small town enclosed in razor wire (or whatever) with an appropriate military-looking base gate, check-point, etc. in front of it.
That would leave me room in the same general area to model the rest of the town (Mechanicsburg or Carlisle, or some of both). The downside is that I’d probably have to leave the yard more-or-less in the same place as it currently is-- I had been hoping to make that semi-rural, but maybe that can still work out somehow.
Also I need to figure out a good name for that portion of the base, rather than just “Building Group’A’”-- does anybody have any idea how that sort of thing would be named? How are sub-parts or annexes or whatever of a single military base named? If I have part of the base over here and another part over there…???"
john
I my case we are simply the 61st Air Base
CSX’s ex RF&P line passes right through the Marine base at Quantaco.
Nick
The Colorado Front Range main line from Denver to Pueblo (ex-D&RGW, now joint BNSF-UP operated) runs right through the Air Force Academy. The railroad follows Monument Creek, where most of the base is built on much higher ground on either side of the creek. There are several road bridges across both the railroad and the creek. Like the other examples, the railroad was there first.
Fred W
Fort Holabird in Baltimore, Maryland, had an elevated track running through it from the port of Baltimore toward the Sparrows Point steel mill.
Holabird was a very small installation that belonged to the Transportation Corps during World War I and was a steam locomotive repair facility then.
Railroad tracks were still embedded in the concrete slab of the building I worked in between 1969-71.
You need to decide what type of military base you’re modeling (i.e., branch of service, type of facility, era) to answer this. Different bases have distinctly different “personalities,” if you will, and the overall look of a military facility depends largely on what commands are present there. I’m not aware of any particular naming conventions for annexes, etc. For example, what used to be Kelly AFB in San Antonio is now a part of Lackland and is called simply Lackland AFB Kelly Field Annex. Corry Station in Pensacola, FL is technically a part of NAS Pensacola but has nothing in its name to indicate so.
In Central California, they created Vandenberg AFB across the existing SP coast mainline. They have big rocket launch pads within sight of the railroad tracks. In the control center at the base, for launch safety, they track the train positions so as to avoid having to stop them and pay a fine to SP, based on the original rights agreement. If you travel through on Amtrak, and it isn’t too foggy, and you are on the inland side of the train, you can see all of the lauch pads …
Marty
The current name is “Defense Distribution Depot Susquehanna”, older name is “New Cumberland Defense Depot”, near Harrisburg PA (in Mechanicsburg). Its original name was the “Marsh Run Storage Depot”, built by the Army Quartermaster Corp in 1918. (Their current website: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/new-cumberland.html) was reading somewhere else about the original facility and found out it was used as a staging point for pretty much anything and everything going to/from Europe during WWI & WWII. After WWII it was still used as a staging area for stuff going to europe but it took on addtl missions pertaining to chemical warfare, chemical-resistant clothing / gear, and aircraft support
Are you planning on including both depots? On your other thread I believe you were referring only to the “Navy Depot” in Mechanicsburg. The “Army Depot” (as we locals tend to call both sites) in New Cumberland is a good distance away from the other one.
Matt
No, just the one, its my understanding that I was only ever talking about one. I think its a multi-branch operation now, but that it has historically been Army. If you have a better understanding or more information, I’m all ears. All I know about it is what I see in the google map, and the little bit I’ve been able to find via web searches.
The depot in New Cumberland was administered by the Army in the beginning and is along the banks of the Susquehanna. It is directly beside the Capital City Airport and directly across the river from Harrisburg International Airport in Middletown. HIA is also home to an Air National Guard Station. Old A-10 Warthogs still in use there. It’s also home to the Air Force’s only “information” wing. I forget what they call it. They are always involved in electronic warfare and propoganda techniques in combat zones. This group was the one responsible for taking over all of Saddam’s government run radio stations and television during the initial invasion of Iraq. All done electronically from aircraft. I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is rail service at that site as most of supply movement to overseas is done from the airports either direct transoceanic or down to I imagine either Dover Air Force base in Delaware or to the shipyards in Norfolk, Va. for naval transport.
The site in Mechanicsburg was initially administered by the Navy and is just rail and tractor trailer supplied. It is about 15 or so miles away from the “Army” depot.
Here’s a link about both sites…
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/mechanicsburg.htm
Matt