I have a large number of ties to stain-- around 100,000 and mulling over how to get them all stained…
I’m thinking the best way to approach it might be to get a couple gallons of stain and just dump it all in there. Anybody ever try this? If so, what kind of stain is good? How long to leave the ties in the stain? Does it hurt them to leave them in longer?
I’m not going to be spiking to them however, so that’s not a concern for me.
So next question-- what colors would you recommend? I want to represent ties at all stages of life. I’m not particularly asking about weathering (at least I don’t think I am), but what do they look like brand new, short-time installed, long-time installed, ready to rot? Etc.
With my hand layed ties, I just stained them in place. I used two brushes, and two colors of stain.
The results?
I read extensively before I began, and for the folks who stained first, the best results seemed to be from folks who did what you said - dropped ties into stain and fished them out later. What made that really work was to again use multiple colors, and mix them in another container before laying, making the coloration truly random.
I chose not to follow that method, and instead stain after sanding, as it almost seemed twice the effort. I’m not displeased with the results.
I’ve always soaked the wooden ties in stain. Varying the ratio of black to brown, the stain concentration, and time spent in the stain creates variety. If your roadbed begins smooth/level and the ties are uniform, only a minimum of sanding should be needed to remove any height variations once laid. The sanding usually leaves a nice “weathering” effect since the stain color lessens the farther into the wood. One can do touch-up staining if desired, but I rarely found that necessary.
Or you can apply the stain after the ties are fastened to the roadbed and sanded, but I don’t do it that way.
I’ve usually used commercial stains obtained from the paint/hardware store. I thin it somewhat for the stain-soak.
Going for an “aged” look, I used lightly-stained ties here:
Don’t be afraid to thin out the stain a lot. “Modern” treated ties range from nearly black to brown to a silvery grey. Most tracks will have a variety of colors but not a wild variety of colors. Most will be in one range of color with a few worse and few new ones scattered in there.
I like to soak them in stain, glue, sand and restain. I use black leather dye in alcohol. I have a peanut butter jar with stain and put the wod in, let it sit for a couple hours (although some went overnight). I use large tweezers to pull them out onto paper towels and newspaper on an old cookie pan. When I glue them down I sand them lightly with fine sandpaper on a wood block. I then take coarse sandpaer and draw it down the length of the ties (across the tracks) to increase the grain, then I restain with half strength (from what’s in the peanut butter jar).
All of my ties tend to a the light wood/silver grey color because I model the 1900’s and my railroad uses untreated ties, so they rapidly weather grey. I have also used Minwax stains and paint thinner on previous layouts, mostly walnut color.
Get a 2 1/2 gal. plastic bucket. Fill it half full of isoprpyl alcohol.Stay away from flames. Get a bottle of Fiebings black shoe dye and a bottle of brown. Put a tablespoon of dye into the alcohol and see how dark it is by test dipping a few tyes. maybe in a hand strainer. when you get the color you like. Dump in 250 or so tyes. pull em out immediately and dry them on a pad of newsprint. Then add a tablespoon or so of dye and another 250 tyes or so and repeat. You can make brown tyes in the same manner then when all tyes are stained mix them in the bucket and lay them randomly. With the alcohol dye it takes about 10 minutes to dry enough to start laying or stacjing or what ever. Then find a couple jugs and save the stain for all the wooden kits you will be building or any weathered wood project.
With this alcohol dye there is no coating or residue on the wood and it penetrates well enough that you can do some light sanding. Also no interference with adhesiives. BILL
Years ago I used brown shoe dye. Soaked a bunch at a time. Though they are in storage, like the rest of my O scale, the still look good. The one thing I would do differently is to vary the color a bit between batches. I would suggest a small batch of very dark (probably black dye), for new ties, use them in groups where repairs have been made and for loads or stacks ready for the gang to come along and put them in place. Gradually lighten your solution. Make a bunch of light ones, driftwood stain color comes to mind, for your low use sidings and used tie piles.
Maybe a trip to the home center is in order, buy a few pint cans of stains you think maybe close and try a few samples. For making darker one give those Flowquill paint pens a try they work remarkably well.
I’ve never done it before but I don’t see why you couldn’t stain them in place by using an air brush. You can spray stain with a conventional spray gun so why not an air brush.this way you may have some control over the darkness by the amount of coats you apply.
Well, experience may be able to provide some input. If you haven’t stained the ties first by dipping, getting all of the angles to spray with an even good coat is a fair amount of work, and seems to make more mess, and in some ways took longer, and was more expensive, than a brush.
I know this, because I did just this - sprayed the majority of my ties with Floquil in my airbrush before trying the stain (with brush) method.
This would be the last method I’d recommend, and I have done it before.
Many moons ago, when I actually hand laid, I glued and sanded the raw ties. Then I stained them with Minwax stain (being a woodworker, I always had some on hand). The darker browns, like Provincial and Special Walnut worked best.
We have the dates but what part of the country are you modelling?
I suspect that in some places you could find redwood ties… and all sorts of wood elsewhere… so the actual timber would have a different colour before it was treated. I think that this would vary more the earlier the date of the model.
Also treatments varied with time… from no treatment through to pressure injected creosote. They tried some pretty weird chemicals in between. I’m sure that combinations of treatent and sunlight turned a lot of ties silver.
I was on track a few months ago with a lot of really ratty grey ties (medium to dark grey in blotchy pattern)… the ties each side of each rail joint had been replaced with new ones that were extra dark chocolate brown. they really stood out from a distance. Given that the ballast was also bad - compacted, full of dirt and brown/grey - the ballast that had been taken out for the tie change and put back in also really showed up. The were small dumps of dirt on the bank to the side of each bit of work. You could model this for just one joint or a number of joints.
Something else to think about…
Not all track gets replaced at the same time. This is usually recognised for yard tracks being different from main but each track of a double/multiple main can be different and/or there may be a distinct change part way along a track (or even all the tracks).
Wet beds or a twist can result in a patch of ties being replaced… anything from a couple of ties in the first case to a couple of car lengths in the second.
Going back to a simple “what colour”…
they can be green - in which case they are likely to be slippery and foul to walk on.
I’m modeling SW PA, Harrisburg to Pittsburgh and thereabouts, in the late 1950’s.
It does help, thanks very much for the good info. Especially about the reasonings behind some oddball colorations. That’s definitely given me something to consider.
Couplemore thoughts…when a “not bad” tie is taken out - as in whole track renewals - it may be cut - for example if the track is lifted onto a flatcar as a panel and an odd sleeper (or six) pokes out to one side beyond the Loading Gauge - in this case the effect is often like fresh cut steel… that is the newly exposed wood is all bright and shiny new in whatever colour the wood was when the tie first went in.
This is however complicated by treatment…
If a tie has been high pressure saturated with preservative the colour should go right through. The effect will then be that the cut end will be the original preserved wood colour all through.
If a tie hasn’t been preserved right through you will get an outer layer of colour and an inner core of the original wood colour - or rotten wood - or a void.
With me so far?
In addition to that dirt, pollution, contamination and weathering may all put layers of colour onto the tie surfaces and into any cracks and/or voids in the tie.
If the tie or a switch timber is cut across where there has been a spike or fixing bolt there will be a distinct vertical line into or through the cut end. In my experience these are always black… basically from oxidation of the steel fitting reacting with the tie. To model this drill the hole and then cut the tie… unless you are an incredibly good shot it will take several goes to get it right. [:D] Painting the black will also take a steady hand.
One thing though - cutting off ties is not artistic. The chain saw cut(s) aren’t even necessarily square. The need is to get the tie end back inside the Loading Gauge, get the load/train past its inspection and get it gone.
Ties get cut into lumps for all sorts of other reasons.
Nick Brodar can say much more than I can about track in your location I expect… BUT [(-D]
If your lines are heavy coal traffic lines they will NOT, that is NOT, be smothered in coal dust.
The heavy coal lines were profitable, had heavy traffic that paid well and that had to be supported physically. The track was heavy weight and highly maintained. From what I’ve seen in pics that land had plenty of trees and could be thoroughly wet… so ballast HAD to be hard, good and clean. Most of all it had to be well drained. That would mean that ties tended to stay good.
Any “weak” tie probably got changed out very fast - a good crew can shift a tie out and put another in, in minutes from untouched ballast to replaced ballast. In the “golden years” it was probably often done “on the fly” between trains. Imagine doing that with an artic and a few hundred tons of coal bearing down on you!
So… anyway… The main tracks would be kept up. Yard tracks would be more of a problem because the yard would be busy all the time. They would be very well maintained though… because a derailed hopper or a spread track would foul up the operation of the yard.
So… coal dust everywhere… At the end yes. By the time railfans were out in numbers with colour film yes… but earlier on? Some dust yes but coal landing as dust on the track isn’t coal riding to the customer to ake money in hoppers. How much did anthracite dust?
Others will know far better than I do on this. My point is that the track and ties would be sound except in very bad times. Therewould also be relatively lots of OW en and machines about.
Also… because leaf fall causes loss of traction - for both pulling and stopping - as well as getting mush into
Seriously, that’s some good info there. Lots of good stuff to think about. Stuff I hadn’t even considered before. Not sure about how to do the scale centipedes though-- but I am a Pennsy modeler, I’ll figure it out… [:D]
