Questions I cannot answer

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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Many visitors to my pike from the “civilian” world have not only made interesting comments, but have asked some questions I do not have answers for…only guesses. Maybe some of you could shed some light on some…

1.What is the average age of a model rail?

  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?

  2. How large is the average HO layout?

  3. How much do you spend on this hobby?

  4. How about hours spent?

  5. Does your family support your activitiy?

  6. What if you have to move?

There were more such questions, and I’m sure previous threads covered this, but I cannot find them.

My answers/guesses would be… based on my three decades of co-producing the Great Scale Model Train show., and my own experiences with over 1000 visitors per year.

  1. I’d guess around 60 but it seems that High Tech electronics are attracting a younger crowd.

  2. This answer is based on current health issues. I have known several folks in their 80’s who are quite active in the hobby and different scales seem to attract different age groups…younger folks seem to gravitate towards N scale and older folks into O scale or O gauge. I believe the ‘O’ in O scale comes from “Octogenarian”. Of course much is based on financial situation also and room for layout.

  3. I have not a clue, but would guess around 300 sq. ft.

  4. Not that much for me as one would think as over 90% of everything is scratch built and even though 95% of power is brass, there is little depreciation and often a profit if and when sold. Other modelers? I have no idea.

  5. Much depends on work status. For me, when I was working, 20 hours would be a good guess. Since retirement…double that and then some. Again others…?

  6. It took me two wives, and 5 relationships until I married the most wonderful woman on the planet who is supportive. My kids and grand kids refer to me

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1.What is the average age of a model rail?

I’d guess between 50 and 60

  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?

Never too late.

  1. How large is the average HO layout?

Thats a tough one.

  1. How much do you spend on this hobby?

Depends on ones disposable income and financial burdens. I’d guess doctors and pilots could spend a great deal more than a construction worker or college student.

Die hard model train fans may spend between 2% and 5% or more of their yearly gross income on the hobby.

  1. How about hours spent?

Single or married, retired or F/T employed, and if married, tolerant wife or intolerant wife? Those factors would cause the hours spent to vary by a lot!

In my case I’ve been able to work four 10 hour days a week leaving me with a day that I can spend some or much of it on the layout.

  1. Does your family support your activitiy?

See above. (my ex-wife was very intolerant - part of why she is the ex. my 2nd wife much more friendly to the hobby and making it a priority that we find a house with layout space.

  1. What if you have to move?

That one is easy to answer - layout is torn down and you build another one somewhere else if you have the space to do it. Don’t you remember the old moto, a layout is never finished, and secondly, die hard model railroaders tear down and rebuild so moving, pffft, thats part of the deal isn’t it?

Speaking of moving, my wife and I are preparing to move so the 10x18’ layout is coming down. I’ve dismantled 5 of the 7 sections over the last couple weeks. It’s a bitter/sweet process. Bitter because of the time and effort put into building the layout to a further point than I’ve had the opportunity to do, but sweet in that there are definitely things about that layout I would like to improve up

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  1. Always tough because there is no agreement about who is and who isn’t. Is my 43 year old son with a room full of Lionels a model railroader? Some say yes others no. I think it’s harder for folks in their 30’s and 40’s to be active because of family, not as much discretionary income, and a work week that has gone from 40 to 50+ hours for a lot of the white collar workforce.

  2. Well I’m 70, moving next month and will start a new layout that will fill most of a 17x44 ft room when/if finished. And can be expanded into other parts of the basement if desired.

  3. I suspect the average layout is around 120 sq ft - the size of the extra bedroom. Probably many others that are 4x8 because it’s an easy way to start. The big layouts get the press, but I suspect that small layout are the norm. I had never had anything bigger than 6x10 until I was in my late 40’s and that was an 11x18 extra room in the basement.

  4. For me this varies. From informal threads on forums and the occasional survey, I suspect that $25-$50 is the norm. My spending has probably averaged that amount over the first 40 years I was in the hobby - less at the beginning, more at the end. Lately, it’s less because I have plenty of stuff. After the move there will be a spike as I buy layout stuff like wood, rail, wire, etc. although I’ll salvage as much as possible from the current layout.

  5. Varies a lot for me, even though retired I have many other things going on in my life. Some weeks might be 20+ hours, other weeks less than 5 or none.

  6. My wife tolerates the hobby, but then it never comes ahead of her and the kids/grandkids

  7. I am moving. Each time I salvage what I can and start anew. I have started at least 10 layouts of varying sizes from 4x8 to 12x31.

The only other question I have heard of, but not had directly, is: does it bothe

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I know one that works for American he is single and boy he spends everything on HO trains.

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When Muggles (nonmodeling folk) ask me these questions I have standard answers.

1.What is the average age of a model rail?

My reply is that is a tough question but,there are modelers of all ages.In this area(Bucyrus) most of us is as old as Moses but,there’s several young modelers to.

  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?

Probably for a building a basement size layout but,not to old for building a smaller and more manageable layout.

  1. How large is the average HO layout?

Don’t know but,would guess around 300 square feet maybe less.

  1. How much do you spend on this hobby?

I don’t know…I’m afraid to start adding it up!

  1. How about hours spent?

For me around 40 hours a week including railfaning.

  1. Does your family support your activitiy?

My late wife did and so does my kids. I could care less what others may think.

  1. What if you have to move?

I pack my trains,buildings etc and move including my layout…That’s a hidden plus with a shelf ISL.

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Well, I’m younger than some at 49, my wife is not very supportive of the hobby, and I didn’t calculate area of the layout, but instead lineal feet of mainline run, which was only about 81 prior to some curve realignments.

As I have needed to use more funds toward my sons’ baseball…it has become more necessary for me to re-evaluate the question of:

  1. How many trains does it really take for one to be happy?

Some have large layouts, and that is fine for them. Some need large motive power rosters just to operate their layouts, and that is fine for them. I will not come on here saying they should do things any differently than they currently do. For me, I prefer to have less motive power and rolling stock than many others, but at the same time, the stuff I do have is usually of pretty good quality, though not built by me.

John

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1.What is the average age of a model rail?
Just a guess but I would say people born in the 1960s or before, when electric train sets were popular Christmas gifts.

  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?
    Never too late to start if you can still see and can still use tools.

  2. How large is the average HO layout?
    Just a guess but big enough to fill a spare bedroom, garage or basement.

  3. How much do you spend on this hobby?
    The original investment can be a lot but when you stretch it out over a lifetime it’s not much. Most months I don’t buy anything because I already have collected so much over the years. Other months it might be between $10 and $200. Annually it is far less than I spend on gasoline.

  4. How about hours spent?
    It varies depending on time of year and how much spare time I have and whether I lose interest or are highly motivated. Sometimes it can be 8 or more hours a day. Other times it might just be a few minutes of operating once every few days. I like to paint or build kits while watching NFL. Other times I like to runs some trains for a few minutes just to relax and escape into my fantasy world.

  5. Does your family support your activity?
    Do they support anything? I don’t think it really matters which hobby or leisure time activity you do. If they are a supportive person they do, if not they don’t. As long as it is not a financial burden or take away time you spend with them then a supportive type person won’t mind what you do. A selfish, needy person won’t like anything you do that doesn’t involve spending time or money on them.

  6. What if you have to move?
    When you move you get to build a new layout and fix all of the shortcoming of the old layout. Plus you have more experience so it is going to be better than the old one.

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[quote user=“Howard Zane”]

Many visitors to my pike from the “civilian” world have not only made interesting comments, but have asked some questions I do not have answers for…only guesses. Maybe some of you could shed some light on some…

1.What is the average age of a model rail?

It’s getting older. Train shows draw a lot of men who look to be 50 or older. Some kids, very few adults in the 20 to 40 age group. The Ammonusic Valley club would love to attract some younger members because a lot of their members are getting too old to help schlep the sectional layout out of the trailer and into the show.

  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?

No, Model railroading isn’t like downhill skiing. The requirements for physical strength and dexterity are not high. Especially if you can avoid duck unders.

  1. How large is the average HO layout?

I think there are a lot of just plain 4 by 8 layouts. Perhaps half? A lot of round the wall layouts, which mostly are the size of the spare bedroom, say 10 by 12 or however big the room is. A few bigger ones in basements, garages and attics.

  1. How much do you spend on this hobby?

Over the course of a year, maybe $100 to $200. At this point I have more rolling stock than I need, and little room left for new structures. Benchwork and track is done and paid for.

  1. How about hours spent?

A few hours a day.

  1. Does your family support your activitiy?

Sort of. They don’t make fun of it, but none of them has much interest in trains.

  1. What if you have to move?

I don’t plan on it, but the drill is straight forward, pack up the rolling stock and the structures. Abandon benchwork and track.

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1.What is the average age of a model rail?

Most folks I know are in their 50´s and 60´s, but it is good to see that there are more and more younger folks joining these days.

  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?

Not at all!

  1. How large is the average HO layout?

I bet the average layout is still the ubiquitous, die-hard 4 by 8, not the spare room- or basement filling empire!

  1. How much do you spend on this hobby?

You don´t seriously expect me to answer this question? My wife may be reading this!

  1. How about hours spent?

Average 5 to 6 hours a week.

  1. Does your family support your activitiy?

My wife does not share my hobby, but is very tolerant, if not supportive. My son thinks I am completely gaga.

  1. What if you have to move?

Not an issue for me - all my layouts have been portable!

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I can only answer for my own situation and/or observations. Most of the people I meet in this hobby do not participate in any online forums at all. Maybe that is an age related thing, maybe not.

1.What is the average age of a model rail?

For me, it was from age 3 to about 18 and then about 46 til now and still going strong. Deteriorating health made me return to the hobby after having to give up on many sports I loved.

2. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?

It is never too late to try anything as long as you don’t do serious damage to your old bones.[(-D]

3. How large is the average HO layout?

Mine fills a 15’ x 24’ room and I have a bedroom off that room as my MRR work space.

4. How much do you spend on this hobby?

What ever I want, but just because I can doesn’t mean I do. I spent about $8000.00 the first year or two and probably $100.00 to $300.

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I would guesstimate that the average age is about 45 - but the three sigma limits are 1 and 100 and the mean is relatively unpopulated. There are dense populations in the single digit and 60-80 year ages, many of the latter returning to the hobby when the nest emptied.

It’s never too late to start, unless you are already in Cheyne-Stokes breathing.

There is no ‘average’ layout. Individuals have built HO layouts (working, not dioramas) in as little as four square feet and in spaces the size of supermarkets.

It’s entirely possible for a person to build an ‘around the room’ shelf layout that would only be a foot wide in a really big space, or to overcrowd a small bedroom with a 4x8 ‘one sheet of plywood’ island layout.

No more of my disposable income than I can afford. At present, not very much. My rolling stock rosters just expanded nine N-scale locomotives worth - kitbash fodder which will eventually become HOjn762 motive power. The credit charges were paid off when the monthly statement arrived.

I have never bought more than I could afford at that immediate time. Patience pays off.

Since I’m fully retired, the limiting factors are health issues and other activities. Anywhere from a few minutes to 60+ hours in a given week.

Very much so. My wife (of 56+ years) set my choice of prototypes in stone wjth a birthday gift - a Kawai brass kit that built up into a ‘foobie’ 2-6-4T similar to the JNR

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Average age would be near 50. It’s just a guess. As a pursuit with some refinement and knowledge, it would be the older male typically. More disposable income, fewer commitments.

Success is always dependent on motivation. If one is motivated, one can do amazing things. I would say even 90 is not too old.

Here, as both Chuck and David have alluded to previously, the term ‘average’ is not the best metric for a ‘typical’ size for layouts. Median and Mode are left of the three metrics typically used to describe a somewhat useful ‘midpoint’ for a data set. The median is going to be about as useless as the mean (average) in pegging the probability of finding two highly similar layouts back-to-back. So, that leaves the mode. The mode is the data point with the highest number of entries. It would be, as others have suggested, Ye Olde Plywood Pacific…or Central. A sheet of plywood, but I would give a nod to include otherwise unused table-tennis tops.

I spend to much, but not nearly enough. It confounds me and interrupts my sleep. I do sleep better when I have elected not to purchase. The feelings of disappointment fade ere long.

I can work on a layout for eight hours or two. Lately, not nearly enough. I haven’t picked up so much as a spike removal tool in three months. So much else to do. In the fall, after most plants have been pulled up in the raised beds, I’ll get back at it. Perhaps 200 hours each year during construction…? On average.

My family would like me to be happy, involved, growing, relating, learning, and generally retaining some semblance of vitality. They know railroading and the modeling thereof are important to me. So, yewbatcha.

So far, when I move I start dreaming. I have never successfully moved a layout. I know it can be done, but I’m not going to fool myself any longer. C

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Several Model Railroader and NMRA surveys over the last 4 decades have placed the average age between 35 and 45, but I do suspect it moving upward pretty steadily.

Never too late to start…

I think average layout size varies a lot regionally. In the Northeast, Mid Atlantic and upper Ohio Valley, basements are common. This is “low cost” living space, often not needed for other household members.

The availablity of this space makes it easier and more affordable for modelers in those regions to build larger layouts…or at least “spread” the layout out over more “floor space”.

For many who live where basements are not common, 800 sq ft or more dedicated to model trains seems enormous. To someone with a 2000 sq foot unfinished basement, 1500 sq ft is nothing…

And remember, SIZE and COMPLEXITY are not the same thing…large does not automaticly mean more complex, more turnouts, etc…it might just mean 40" curves rather than 30" curves, a 20’ long freight yard rather than a 12’ long freight yard…

But if I had to pick an “average”, 400-500 sq ft.

Spending - based on my retail experiance in the hobby, the “average” is about $2,000 a year. Some spend way more, some way less…

Howard, I suspect that the number of modelers who “dabble” in brass as part of the hobby and therefor consider that cost the way you describe it, is a very low percentage of all the modelers out there. And, even if you can “recoup” those costs, you have to be in a position to afford to tie up that money in the first place.

Time - I think this is the one that changes a lot, is different for most people, and hardest to put a number on…

Family support - well, again hard to judge. My first wife was indifferent, the new wife (22 years now) is supportive, but not in involved.

What if you move? - I’m building the current layout t

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I had my first layout (Lionel) as a kid-- age 6-18, my second (HO) and third (N) as dad-- 35-50, and my current fourth (N now operating) and fifth (N under construction) as grand-dad-- 60-67 and counting. Seventy is a great age to build a layout. My first 4 layouts were 4 x 8= 32 sq. ft. I added a small engine facility (8 sq. ft). to layout 3. My current work in progress will be around 120 sq feet when finished. I have about 80 sq. feet substantially finished. Currently spending around $300 per year or less, usually less. E bay auctions have been a great way to save on locos, cars, and structures. Trains are one of my winter activities-- several hours a week from December to March, mostly on weekends. I often do train stuff while watching football games on TV as my project bench is in my basement rec room. My wife is generally disinterested and mildly amused that I am playing trains, my son is supportive for the sake of the grandkids and the little people (2 and 4) want to see trains whenever they come over. Not planning to move now but layout 4 was essentially a rebuild of layout 3 which was completely dissassembled with the rolling stock and locos and structures and power packs kept in storage boxes for ten years. No problem to start over with new benchwork and track. To my surprise, all locos and power packs (MRC Tech II) started up right out of the storage bins (even including a couple of old Bachman starter train set F-9s that are so widely disparaged on this board). Have fun.

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1.What is the average age of a model rail?
No idea, but most of them don’t smell very good at train shows I attend.

  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?
    At that age, one shouldn’t even be buying green bananas!

  2. How large is the average HO layout?
    About 1/2 as large as the really nice one.

  3. How much do you spend on this hobby?
    Not nearly as much as I’d like to.

  4. How about hours spent?
    Spend too many hours on this and you risk missing out on your family.

  5. Does your family support your activitiy?
    Which uhhh, activity are you referring to?

  6. What if you have to move?
    I’m almost positive I’d take the family with me.

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Average age about 42 (you got to relize that very few MR’s are on this forum).

2, depends on your health!

3.size around 60 sq. ft.

  1. about $400 a year

5, around 7hr a week

6, mostly no

  1. most tear down and start over
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One question I have received at my open houses in November is How did you come up with the idea to do all this ? Of course this is after their first view of a 3120 sq ft multi deck railroad. Next one is usually what did it cost ? ---- Ken

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I read quite a while ago that a model railroad typically costs $50-75 per square foot. Of course that includes the lumber, track, locos, rolling stock, structures, scenery material, etc. I believe a simple railroad with minimal locos and rolling stock could be built for considerably less but if one had lots of high end locos jammed into a mid sized layout, I would bet the cost could be even higher. I read this about 15 years ago so inflation would have to be figured in. Still, that is probably a good ballpark figure.

If I worried about how much I have actually spent on my layouts over the years, I probably would never have gotten into the hobby.

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1.What is the average age of a model railroader?

      • OLD! After 35 years in the hobby I am finally catching up with the demographic median. Only a decade or two to go! Of course this is true for EVERYTHING in South Florida. So many old people here. The land of the Newlyweds and Nearlydeads.

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  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start?
      • NO! Lots of retirees move down here and take up new hobbies in their golden years. Jump in!

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  1. How large is the average HO layout?
      • Layouts will always grow to fill all available space! I would imagine here in Florida the layouts are smaller because we do not have basements. Spare bedroom layouts are common.

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  1. How much do you spend on this hobby?
      • 50% of all my disposable income.

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  1. How about hours spent?
      • Usually 15-20 hours per week.

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  1. Does your family support your activitiy?
      • YES! My wife loves the fact that over our 30 year marriage she always knows where she can find me.

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  1. What if you have to move?
      • I will never move. I bought my retirement home when I was in my early thirties. I am already in South Florida, where all the old folks go. I am ready! I guess I would have to move if the city claims Imminent Domain for a public works project, but I can’t waste time worrying about that.

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-Kevin

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My answers are in bold…

1.What is the average age of a model rail? Define average. I’m 41 and started a about six years ago and had months of dead time while between work, helping with new newborns, etc.

  1. Is being in the mid 70’s and sometimes older too late to start? It depends.

  2. How large is the average HO layout? Again, define average.

  3. How much do you spend on this hobby? I don’t dare ask.

  4. How about hours spent? Varies.

  5. Does your family support your activitiy? Wife gives me the eye roll and dislikes spending money, but the kids love the trains, so can’t complain!

  6. What if you have to move? Cry.