I read somewhere on here that most new conductors/brakeman do not use hand signals and just use the radio all the time not? If so is this a good or bad thing? Please explain why? Thank you
There was a thread here about that earlier this year, if I recall correctly.
Yep - “Hand Signals” during July 2010, at -
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/176943/1942443.aspx#1942443
You might recognize the person who started that thread . . . [swg]
I also found another one from back in 2007 - just type in “hand signals” in the Search Our Community box to the right, and see what comes back !
- Paul North.
Short term memory is the first to go.
Radio’s are not guaranteed, hand signals are, if line of sight is maintained
Radio batteries go dead – hand signals then must be used to communicate. If crew members don’t know or are not taught hand signals, what do you do then?
Be sure to use the signals as they are taught on your road.[:)] Paul, have you ever seen any description of variations from one road to another? On a previous thread, we have had a brief discussion of men on one road describing signals given by a man as being those given on another road.
By the way, how many people now know the hand signals that motorists used to have to know (I’m going to: turn right, turn left, slow down or stop)
Be sure to use the signals as they are taught on your road.[:)] Paul, have you ever seen any description of variations from one road to another? On a previous thread, we have had a brief discussion of men on one road describing signals given by a man as being those given on another road.
By the way, how many people now know the hand signals that motorists used to have to know (I’m going to: turn right, turn left, slow down or stop)
Unfortunately, I think I’m the only one in my town that uses those while bicycling. [:(]
Does anybody know what you are communicating or are you thought to be friendly or pointing at something?
Does anybody know what you are communicating or are you thought to be friendly or pointing at something?
It seems most “hand signals” motorists use these days have little to do with turning, slowing down or stopping.
Jeff
Its bad. I hate using the radio when I dont have too. Most of the new guys have no idea how to give hand signals. It gets really annoying when I am protecting a shove around a blind curve, and actually NEED the radio, and the other guys are using it for things like “Ok, uhh, DMIR 316 slack ahead for the pin” “okayyyyy, D M I R three one six slacking ahead to get the pin, ok” “ok uhh DMIR 316…lets go back to break the joint…” “ok dmir three one six is going to head back to break the joint with the train”, as I have jumped off my car and am frantically trying to get into my engineers sight line to wash him out. Its just frustrating, like WHY use the radio? Are these guys stupid? Just use hand signs, so much easier!
If we can see each other, it’s usually hand signals. If not, it’s usually radio. When we have a road switcher on our locals, the only thing you’ll hear on the radio during our four-times daily run-arounds is job briefing updates (ie, Joe’s doing this, Tom’s doing that, if it hadn’t been decided beforehand) and stuff like mainline switch position reporting.
Something we don’t have much experience with is relaying hand signals.
For 30 years my hobby was working as a road racing flagger and observer. Naturally we had our own hand and body signals. Some varied from club to club but they were pretty obvious as to meaning.
For a disabled car needing a flat tow: make a “T” with you body.
For a disabled car with a flat or damaged suspension, a raised tow needed: a “hooking” motion with both arms to one side or a tilted “T” with the body.
Injured personnel: make an “A” with body.
Yellow flag: hand held straight out and stationary
Waving yellow: hand held out and waved vertically
Green flag or everyone’s OK, etc.: A baseball “safe” sign
Surface condition (oil or debris on track): point at ground and makes circles.
“I don’t understand” or update me: a “W” shape with arms like a shrug for a question.
Some Turn Marshals had personal signals for car conditions, what was leaking, etc., you can fill them in.
I last worked races in 1993. I’m sure the signals have changed somewhat. I’ve seen lists of signals online that show a continuing evolution.
Jack
lol They must think I’m very friendly. [:)]
Saw a bicyclist use a proper left turn signal the other day and thought who today would either recognize, respond to, or avoid creaming the guy. He was coming off the Monroe Street bridge onto 8th NE. This on our new Metropolitan Branch Trail along (ex-B&O now CSX) tracks.
Biking, pedestrian and motorist safety are a big concern here in DC. I walk the MBT almost daily and follow my old Boy Scout rules :walk on the left facing traffic so you can jump if necessary.
RIX
Uh…I don’t remember being taught anything about hand signals at the RR. Maybe it was because I was trying to dispatch, but I don’t remember any hand signals when I did my ride-outs in the locomotive. Nor do I remember anything about hand signals mentioned during dispatch school. The only time I remember anything about hand signals at all in train class was that anyone seen wildly, frantically, panic-like, moving their arms next to the track required stopping. From my paramedic days similar behavior meant “Over here! Over here!”
How paths do cross. I once made a call out to the BNSF headquarters in Fort Worth. There are a lot of buildings there. We pulled up and had no clue where to go. I contacted dispatch, to inquire as to where we should go. They responded that someone should be waiting for us. After biting my tongue and thinking for a minute I replied, "Well, they sure ain’t out here waving there arms and yelling (In Texas-mocking tone) “Ova Heya! Ova Heya!”
Gosh, no wonder I kept getting into trouble.
[:-,] A smart-aleck would say that one good reason to use hand signals is precisely so that the DS doesn’t know what’s going on out in the field . . . . as in when a train crew screws up some way . . . [:-^] From a story someplace: “Let’s not be in a hurry to call this in - maybe we can straighten this out and cover it up.”
Here’s a link to the ‘RailMation’ webpage of 6 animated “Railroad Hand, Flag and Lamp Signals”:
http://www.trainweb.org/railmation/signals.html
And another one, with better animations:
http://www.etestmaker.com/35/htm/start%20-%20all.htm
I believe there are more signals, but can’t quickly find a reference that depicts or describes them.
- Paul North.
If you are giving proper car counts on the radio, then there should be no need for a washout. If you can only see 5 cars around a curve, then you give him 5 cars. If you can’t get a word in edgewise on the radio (although sometimes you just have to bully yourself on the radio, even if it is for STOP!) then he’s supposed to stop in half the distance. Your problem is with your crew, not the others.
In my yard you have to use the radio a lot due to the curvature of many of the tracks. It’s hard to stay in the hogger’s views 100% of the time, esp. when you have a lot of work to do. In older times, they used ot have 4-5 men crews, pieces of white cardboard, and even climbed on top of cars to pass signals.
I’m sure there are training films someplace that show the use of hand signals, and how the engineer and train respond to them. Perhaps that San Diego or Southern California museum line that has videos of couplers mating, etc., might already have made and posted one ‘on-line’. Nevertheless, this would be a neat concept for a modern YouTube-type video:
Get a 2 - 4 video cameras, synchronize them, and run them simultaneously, focusing 1 on the conductor/ switchman and his hand signals; 1 on the moving end of the train next to him; 1 showing what the engineer sees of the hand signals from his perch; and 1 showing the engineer’s manipulations of the throttle and brakes, etc. in response to the hand signals, including the sound effects of the engine revving up and down, the air brake exhaust, etc.
A variation might be showing ‘passing’ signals around a curve - how the ‘swing’ brakeman receives and forwards the signals from further back.
Then it all repeat at night, especially to show all the engineer can see is that point of light moving in certain patterns at a considerable distance away.
Anybody game to try ? A tourist or shortline railroad would be the ideal venue, it seems to me.
- Paul North.