RailPro vs DCC

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
41

I guess I participate in these tech vs tech threads out of fascination. I simply don’t understand the allure of new tech, and why it would compel somebody to switch systems when their current system has been learned and works just fine.

I recently relocated my domecile. I took my toggle switches and NCE DCC system with me because it was still working and I plan to build basically the same DC for operations/DCC for sound layout I had. Even a tear down and rebuild isn’t motivation to look into changing operating systems.

But the topic is fascinating nevertheless. Not because of the tech per se, but why people care about it.

I guess my observation is that the conversation is getting into minutiae, like most tech vs tech threads, where how many times we press buttons determines whether a system is better or not. Heck, I think flipping toggles is pretty easy. When we’re talking about which easy thing is incrementally easier, I see it as the systems being basically the same, with the difference to me being the system I have is already paid for.

42

CG & Sheldon:

You can add a description right out of the box. It’s built into the controller. The decoder stores it. And even my 68 year old eyes with triple focal glasses can read the block lettering. I use the standard locomotive picture that comes with the controller and just give it a description. IE: SP 2413. I did install my own picture of one of my locomotives which is nice, but the standard picture works for me.

You can also add your own picture without buying a program. The special program in Windows is ‘Paint’. You just need to download the program from Ring (Free!) that lets RailPro connect with your computer via a USB cable which comes with the controller.

The controller package also comes with a battery charger as the batteries in the controller are rechargable and do not need to be removed from the controller to be recharged.

One thing that I stumble on regarding consist. If you have a consist assembled but not running, you can pick any engine in the consist to run the consist. You don’t have to pick the lead locomotive. As an experiment, I attached an A-B-B set to the front of 25 cars, then put an A-B set in the middle of the cars. ( These 5 locomotives had already been consisted as a 5 unit consist). I selected the B unit that was in the middle of the train from the controller, and ran the train. It ran perfectly. Amazing.

BTW, when making up a consist, you don’t have to give the consist a special address to run it. You just use one of the locomotives that you pick from the locomotive page that’s part of the consist.

43

Well, I didn’t expect to spark this heated of a debate lol.

For those who haven’t used it, the Dynamis system is a very limited DCC system aimed at beginners and for that it is really great.

What it does do is get you a wireless DCC controller for +/- $100 (ebay, modeltrainstuff) that will control trains and activate functions. It can also program CVs, however it cannot read the existing values unless you add the additional ProBox.

What it does not do is any of the more advanced functions that a lot of other DCC system have out of the box.

For my needs it was the perfect introduction to digital train control, and after using it I definitely do not want to go back to DC.

I guess my original question was really, if I switch to RailPro will I be dissapointed. From the responses I’m thinking not and it will be perfect for my needs. I don’t and probably never will have 150 identical locos, right now we have a GP20, SW9, 0-6-0, and an F unit. I would like to get some more 4 axle diesels (18" radius curves), but my son prefers “puffy engines”. Regardless, we have a roughly 10’ x 4’ dogbone layout and can’t have that much motive power no matter what it is.

I can definitely see how with a much more complex layout and large roster the infinite customization of traditional DCC could be preferred, but for us I think the simplicity of a system like RailPro is the way to go. One example being that I tried to change the Prime Mover volume in my Loksound, but actually changed the settings for the headlight instead and had to reset to factory to get it to come back on.

44

Some of my fellow Railpro users have already answered many of the questions asked here. I’ll reiterate a few things and touch on some other points.

-Railpro does not require a Railpro power source. A Railpro-equipped locomotive will run as long as it has power, be it from DCC, DC, battery, etc. I have used regular DC power packs to power Railpro locos (not recommended though, as some power packs can “spike” and damage the electronics). I also have a battery-powered locomotive in the works.

-FYI Railpro power supplies are 14.2V regulated DC, 4 amps. They (and ALL Railpro products) can be controlled via radio from the controller. Railpro power supplies also act as “repeaters”, amplifying the signal between the controller and locomotives, and providing multiple paths of communication.

-You can create whatever you want for a locomotive picture. Most (including me) use pictures of the model locomotive, a few make a “numberboard” using Paint or similar, so that it is very easily seen on the screen.

-There is software available from Ring Engineering that allows you to load your own pictures and sounds, as well as sounds, product programs, lighting effects, etc from Railpro. The program is free, but you must pay to unlock the ability to load your own sounds.

-Everything in Railpro can be updated with new software. If you want a different feature, Ring Engineering can include it with a future software update. It was mentioned here that having a list of locomotives would be nice rather than filtering through pages of locomotive pictures…with some coding and testing by Ring Engineering it is entirely possible to have that as an option.

-If you have a very large fleet of locomotives, it is doubtful that all the locomotives need to be stored on every controller. If you have that many locomotives, it is likely that you have specific jobs to be done on the railroad. Diff

45

Reading through the RailPro documentation, I found one vague reference to this repeater ability. In my mind, this is something Ring Engineering should cleary state and emphasize up front.

One of the reasons I originally went the Digitrax route is the possiblity of automating part of the layout via custom PC software and loconet. If Ring Engineering were to release the protocol specs for that CI-1 USB interface it would make the RailPro system that much more attractive.

CG

46

Well, I just found out about RailPro on another MR post. I’m between layouts right now. I have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder from my last layout I had planned to replace. I find Digitrax tedious and their customer service TO ME sucks. I hate the stupid pigtail that gets caught in trees and other things…SO…I read the RailPro mention with great interest. I think having 2 trains controlled by the same throttle is not a good idea.

I’m not very computer savvy and don’t care to try to understand JMRI or whatever it is and conecting my computer to my railroad. I use my computer for emails, forums and orders to Klein’s. I will have a small 14x16 layout running WM steam with a possible double header sometimes. There will probably never be more than 7 locomotives on the layout at any given time and more than likely not more than 2 locomotives operating at once. I also have no fellow modelers in the area who could bring their choochoo’s over to play and vice-versa. So the ease of getting trains to run with RailPro very much appeals to me.

My Digitrax investment is small and it appears most of it will either burn or melt in my burn pit so that’s not a problem either.

I would think all these questions about RailPro could and would be answered with emails to them and actually ask them these questions rather than everyone guessing and belittling the product before ever seeing or operating with it.

My understanding is the power supply is included in the basic set and not an add-on like Digitrax and, I assume, the other DCC brands.

My feeble old brain hasn’t made a decision yet as to NCE or RailPro but I sure like the simplicity it shows SO FAR. I agree there are many unanwered questions and I’m anxiously awaiting my replies from them right now.

No matter what…I THINK Digitrax sucks!

My 2¢,

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

47

Roger [(-D], tell us what you think about Digitrax, don’t be shy…[(-D] I checked out the Railpro thing from the other thread, interesting, maybe, if I was to start all over, or haven’t started yet and was looking, as the start-up cost is comparable to other systems,…my question, just like I asked in the thread about wireless control, does Railpro work if you have hidden areas, like long tunnels ? Long, like 8’ or more of hidden track.?

Mike.

48

Well don’t burn the Digitrax, I will remove the best DCC system on the market from your hands and put it to good use on my layout. Besides, the fumes from burning plastic and electronics are harmful to your health. You’ll probably blame Digitrax for that, too.

I just want to know - why are you holding the throttle over the layout so that the cord gets caught in trees? You know they DO have wireless too. My throttle never comes above the fascia when I run trains, it hold it down at my side. Since you can just click the knob to change direction, i don’t even have to look to do so. My other hand is free to operate ground throws or use uncoupling picks. Try that with Ring’s controller, or any of those touch screen type controls. You need 2 hands to hold it and you have to look at the screen to find the buttons.

–Randy

49

Randy,

Burning seems an appropriate end for it. Selling used DCC is pretty hard as most people won’t buy it and rightfully so. I don’t “blame Digitrax” for anything except being more complicated than it should be and providing me with crappy customer service. Seems like many users tend to agree and many have converted to NCE citing that as one reason. Hind sight and all that.

Well the DT402R has some kind of semi-flexible wire thingy sticking out the top that I call a pigtail. In past use on other people’s layouts I have witnessed the pigtail getting caught in scenic items & structures near the edge of the layout. Some folks have rather tight aisles which means an operator must crowd close to the layout for others to pass and allows the wire to contact things. Some layputs are also located at the level allowing that too. Maybe if the EnemaRay enforces layout height standards that problem would be eliminated. Some folks need to see the buttons on the throttle so they push the correct ones too which would put the throttle out in front of them and somewhat high.

The RailPro throttle can be operated by one hand for most functions. I’m sure with use an operator would learn the location of specific buttons without looking. People type by feel and memory, use cell phones, tablets, etc that way so I can see that happening with their equipment too.

Maybe a large layout or someone with 100+ locos in service would find the system not handy but there are many folks just looking to run a few engines on a small(er) layout that like the ease of the RailPro. I think it will fit my needs.

Everyone is free to disagree but let’s keep from being rude to each other.

An additional 2¢,

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

50

RailPro user here. The likely reason Ring Engineering doesn’t go out of the way to promote the repeater function in the power supply is because it is almost never needed. Your layout would have to be absurdly huge or there would have to be something in the room that is especially good at blocking the radio signal. I don’t know what that would be.

My RailPro HC-1 can control trains from a substantial distance outside the train room. The basement is 75’ long with the layout at one end. I can control trains from anywhere in the basement or first floor of the house. The number of walls (stick & drywall) between the controller and train doesn’t seem to matter. I have never tried from outside the house but it proves the HC-1 control is solid to at least 100’. Why would anyone operate a train from more than 100’ away?

I suppose if you live in a very densely populated area with a lot of signals in the RP band then perhaps the repeater could add signal strength but given that cordless phones work fine in the same environment I doubt you need the RailPro repeater even then.

I think the repeater function was a freebie byproduct of Ring putting communications in the power supply so it could be controlled by and report status to the HC-1 controller.

51

We have them all oover the club, most just hold the pigtail behind the throttle. A rubber band wor

52

Kinda funny that a guy calling for civility is yelling that something “sucks” and that it should be set on fire. [^o)]

Roger,
So Digitrax “sucks” because of the 6" throttle cord? Um, how about a rubberband around the throttle and tuck the cord under it? A bunch of guys in my club do that. Personally, I just hold the throttle in my hand in such a way that the cord is between my palm and the throttle case. I never have the cord snagging on scenery when it’s in my hand. You could also cut the cord shorter and put on your own connector.

Two trains being run on one throttle like Digitrax can do is actually very handy for running your own pusher independantly. Running two locos separately on one throttle can be tricky, but I’ve done it when I’ve been moving power around in the yard.

What about their customer service “sucks”? I’ve had nothing but good experiences with them since 1999. For $25, they once replaced a DT400R that had been dropped because they couldn’t fix it. They gave us a brand new throttle. Sounds like a good deal to me. Turnaround time for repairs can be variable, but nothing terrible…and they’ve never lost anything of ours.

There are things to fault Digitrax on; the “pigtail”, twin throttles, and customer service really aren’t at the top of my list. The screen could be bigger, the reliability could be a lot better, and the manuals could be clearer, certainly.

Selling used Digitrax items isn’t hard at all. I look at eBay and see there’s used stuff being sold there consistently. You’re not going to get list price, but then you don’t get list price for plastic locos, either. It’s used and it’s going to sell for much lower than retail.

What’s more complicated than it has to be with Digitrax? You said you’ve only got 7 engines and are mo

53

Paul3,

By civility I meant being rude to another poster. By saying I personally think Digitrax sucks I base that on the mumbo-jumbo user manual & the poor customer service I RECEIVED. I know others that agree with that completely. I never said Digitrax should be set on fire but stated where my own lousy stuff will end up. I never attacked anyone but stated my opinion about a product/company based on my personal experiences. I’m glad you got such great treatment from them. If you notice in the MR forums and other forums there are constant posts about the terrible & wonderful customer service modelers get from the same companies all the time.

As to the comment about the pigtail some friends and I operated on a fellows layout and his throttle pigtail, antenna, cord, curb feeler, etc. got tangled in the guy’s trees and structures. So it can and does happen.

I think the idea of running helpers with another throttle isn’t what DCC was supposed to be all about. I thought the idea was ALL locomotives in a train would be controlled by the one throttle. Might as well go back to DC if that’s how it’s to be used. It would save a lot of money and time.

I understand the RailPro throttle is larger than a DT400 or whatever but I’ve seen videos of guys using them single handed. Personally I need to view the DT400 and see the buttons to operate it. I also don’t type well and have to look at the keyboard. Apples and oranges again.

"Also, since Digitrax ha snow discontinued the R simplex radio throttles and the UR91 radio base, there are people paying a premium for them because they don’t want to switch to the duplex system and want spares. "Randy

Randy,

Isn’t that one of the big issues people seem to have with the RailPro system…fear of them going out of business and not being able to buy more items. What’s the differen

54

I don’t like the Digitrax throttle or the RailPro throttle…

My Train Engineer throttles are ambidextrous and easily operated with one hand completely by feel.

Once a throttle is “assigned” to a train, by whatever system, I don’t want to have to look at the throttle to control speed or direction.

I don’t want tinny buttons, I don’t want endless wheel pots, I don’t want displays to read.

I do want an on/off switch…

Someone should built a DCC throttle that works like the Train Engineer…oh, I forgot, it needs the 37 buttons for all that stuff I don’t use…never mind.

Sheldon

55

Two big differences: One - with the Digitrax simplex radios we are talking about discontinuing items because parts are no longer available for them, not a company going out of business, and the parts that are discontinued can still be used with the current systems and the newer throttles can be used with the older systems, so even with the discontinuation of the parts you can still update and/or add to your system with out having to replace everything. If Ring Engineering goes out of business, once the parts dry up there will be no adding to the system.

Two - Since DCC is a standard with several manufacturers, your not tied to one decoder manufacturer. If Ring Engineering ever goes out of business, even if you have all of the system components you will ever need, once all of their decoders are all sold out you would not be able to add Rail Pro to any more engines. If Digitrax, or any other DCC manufacturer goes out of business, there are many other makers of decoders to supply people’s needs.

56

Correction: throttles with endless wheels use encoders, the ones with pots have a hard stop at each end.

The Digitrax UT4 series only has eight buttons, a pot with hard stops, and no display.

57

Well excuss me for not being up to your high standards of “technical” terms.

Yes, the UT4 is my prefered throttle when I’m on a Digitrax layout, which I have considerable throttle time on several…

Sheldon

58

I MUCH prefer the fine control of an encoder. There’s no need to look at the display other than to pick a loco address to operate. Know your speed/ Just watch your train. Unless you set up for yard mode, when the train is stopped, it’s stopped. couple extra clicks just to be sure it’s stopped and not on speed step 1 if you’re paranoid about the train creeping away. Plus you can just push down on the knob to change direction. No hunting for a direction button, or trying to find the toggle. This is all accomplished with my hand holding the throttle down at my side, not looking at it. The clicks on the knob as you turn it are tactile feedback so you know you actually are turning the knob and not just slipping your thumb on it. One use and I was done with 270-320 degree pots for good. Plus you can’t easily switch back and for between running locos with a potentiometer because the physical position is directly related to the speed. Not so an encoder, you can freely change between different trains running at different speeds and nothing happens to either one until you actually move the knob.

As for the whole MU thing - that’s fine for diesel modeling. It emulates the way the real ones work, one control stand running a whole group of locos. But for steam operation - if you really are interested in operating, you should have a second person with their own throttle running the pusher. Next best, you can do it yourself with a dual throttle like the DT series, one for the head end loco and one for the pusher. That’s STILL doing stuff you can’t easily do with DC. With traditional blocks you’re great as long as the head end and the pusher are ALWAYS in different blocks. I STILL can;t figure out how it can be done (independent control) with something like Sheldon’s MZL, since the route assignment sets what cab is controlling those tracks, unless on a helper district you add cab selection overrides. With DCC there’s no bother, the locos don;t have to be spe

59

And that is why they make Fords and Chevys, I tried all that, never could get comfortable with it.

When I first considered the Train Engineer I was not sure if I would like the buttons, but once I did, I was sold.

Sheldon

60

Well, it’s not a matter of having high standards of “technical” terms, it’s a matter of being correct. A pot (potentiometer) and an encoder are two completely different things.