Hi everybody,
I am currently reading the book Railroad Signaling. I am going to be a locomotive engineer when I grow up, so I thought I should read it now. It is interesting so far but to anyone else reading it does it seem a bit overwhwhelming? Don’t get me wrong, I like the book but for me I get all the signalling systems mixed up. When I go to become a engineer will the railroad teach me about the signals they use. Should I be worried that this book seems overwhelming?
No, don’t worry too much. You’ll eventually learn the signals, and they do vary from railroad to railroad, division to division, so the railroad should teach you their specific combos.
I think the FRA should make a set of standard signal indacations and system’s to avoid confusing one railroad’s system from another. Anyway thank’s for responding!
No, don’t be worried - they all seem overwhelming. The railroad will train you. Special situations are covered by the rulebook, “timetable”, general orders, special orders or bulletins, and so on. This is definitely something best learned by “OTJ” = “On The Job” training, which is part of getting qualified for the territory where you’ll be operating.
I’ve read where those preparing for a signal test will buy or make “flash cards” so that someone else can test them in a quiz or game format. Maybe you could find a couple friends to have a contest with. In the meantime, you might find these 2 sites interesting:
“NORAC Signal Aspects Demonstrator” at :
http://raildata.railfan.net/java/DivRte/NORAC.htm
“North American Signaling - Railroad Rules, Signalling, Operations:” at:
http://www.lundsten.dk/us_signaling/index.html
Also, try out the “Train Dispatcher 2 - Rail Simulation Game” freeware version (instead of MSTS) at:
http://www.signalcc.com/train2/td2freeware.html
Do a Google search of “railroad signalling” and spend about the rest of your life looking at it all . . .
Finally, don’t forget the Al Krug pages that I referenced earlier. He has some good stuff, too.
As long as the FRA pays for it and the public doesn’t mind spending a few billion-with-a-b dollars to implement it, and the public doesn’t mind the price of consumer goods, electricity, cars, and oil going up to make up for the higher transportation costs that result from the loss in rail capacity, it’s a good idea! I’ll have a gravy train to live on until I retire.
But not to worry, Positive Train Control will wipe the wayside signal off the face of the earth for the vast majority of the nation’s railway system by 2020 or so, making the problem (if you see it as that) moot.
RWM
Ah, yes. There are times when you have to remember which road you are on. The N&W used the PRR and B&O to get into the passenger station in Cincinnati. Forty years ago, I was in the dome as the Powhatan Arrow left on its way to Norfolk. I asked a trainman about the significance of a lunar white indication on the B&O; he told me (I do not remember what it was), and he also told me that lunar white on the N&W had the opposite significance.
Each road developed its signal system to meet what the road saw as its needs, and the operating crews of roads with trackage rights had to learn the signal systems of the owning roads. Also, when a train is being detoured over another road, a pilot engineer and conductor are necessary becasue the crew operating the train are not necessarily familiar with the host road. Another interesting fact about detouring: if the foreign train is involved in an accident, no matter who caused it, the foreign road pays for the damage.
Johnny
I read the Solomon book on rwy signaling too, Justin, and I thought the text and pictures were fascinating. But you’re certainly right that it’s a lot of facts for the space! Rest assured that while there may still be anomalies, you’ll have opportunity to learn about them – and also that many aspects of signaling detailed in the boook have ceased to exist (for the most part) just in the past few years. There’s a lot of info about semaphore signals, for example, but few are left. I’ve read in TRAINS during just the past several years about the old Pennsy main line (now NS) signals (which imitated semaphore directions and colors) being dismantled, also old semaphore signals on the ex-Monon. - a.s.
Justin, please don’t take this the wrong way.
You’re still a kid. Enjoy your childhood. Reading a book on signaling “in preperation” to become an engineer is like putting the cart ahead of the horse. In reality, it probably won’t help you. You’re still going to need to learn the railroads individual take on each signal (because there’s ALWAYS exceptions and changes somewhere…Nature of the beast).
Before you even think about becoming an engineer, you need to be a good conductor (Okay, that’s now how it always goes either. Half the jerks behind the throttle can’t switch [:D] )
Justin, I have two suggestions for you:
First, get out to the nearest control point that has something–anything–besides a diamond. Watch the signals as the train approaches, observe the varying combinations, match them to Mr. Solomon’s book, and learn what these signals mean in real life. What the signal does (or permits) is every bit as important as what it’s called, when you’re trying to understand them.
Speaking of “what it does,” check your local library for The Railroad: What It Is, What It Does, by the late John Armstrong. The book itself is very dry, and most of the text will be over your head for now. But he has one diagram in that book that shows some possibilities for these signals on a mythical railroad. This one page alone does a fantastic job of explaining the signals, what they mean, and where you’re likey to find them.
You see, in most cases, you’ll be dealing primarily with “Go”, “Stop”, and “Be ready to stop at the next signal”. Anything else tells you about how fast you’ll be traveling, which route you’ll be traveling over, and what you have to look for between there and the next signal.
Before I hired out for a railroad, I bought a booklet called All About Signals, the combination of two Trains Magazine articles written by the same John Armstrong. A lot of information in that, too, and pretty much the same diagram. Studying that diagram will show you the logic in the signal system, and in the names for the signals. I studied it, and was able to predict the movement of trains at control points fairly well before I hired out for a railroad. When I did get a job with the railroad, the rule book had the signals, but they had names that were strange to me. No matter–they performed the same function. Beyond that, however, you’ll find when working for a railroad that you’ve got to know the territory–what you do at a signal might not be covered in the rule book or special instructions as it is in the timetable or a divis
I guess I had it easy as the NS provided the flash cards books and on the job training to learn 15 signals that my railroad uses then i had to learn 2 other roads signals. In other words it took about 20 minutes to know the signals and the meanings it was the 500 operating rules that you must learn that can get you in trouble. and they change them every day to justify what they want. It is great that you have the drive and the determination to want to be a railroader and learn what you can for the hobby part of it. but dont forget your school work now. enjoy life and being a teenager, life is short when its time to get into the field for work that is where you will get the info you need. all supplied by the carrier.enjoy railroading as a hobby, Dont become a know it all and take chances and dont do stupid things in the field that will get you arrested or hurt because you know something about railroading, If trackside get to know the men that work there as they get to trust you they will teach you, but dont over step your bounds. ( try helping or do the railroading for them) you never know whos on board. there is plenty of kids and adults i have let on my engines who ive become to know and then there is others i have run off and had run off by the police. ( with the railroads blessing ) Stay out of trouble with the law and you will be a step ahead at hiring time.
To echo what wabash1 said above:
It’s been said that: “When you take up railroading as a career, you lose it as a hobby”.
That was true for me (when I was in the track business), for 2 reasons: The job and associated responsibilities ate up most of my spare time; and I got so much of it at work, it satisfied that itch/ urge, and so I wasn’t that motivated/ interested to do much with my 3 sets of scale trains (O, HO, and Z) - dropped my subscriptions to Model Railroading, let my NMRA membership lapse, etc. But I still kept my Trains subscription and read it often, along with many other RR trade magazines and professional publications (AREA Bulletin). I don’t regret it - some of it was a choice and conscious decision of whether I was going to devote my time, interests, and energies to the models, or to the real thing - which doesn’t have to be such a drastic “either / or” choice as I made it. But be aware that it could happen to you, too.
A year or two (or 3) ago there was a derailment in the Chicago area that involved an Amtrak train going much faster than it should have been on the track that it was on, which was only one of several different railroads and different signal systems that the train had to traverse in the course of its run. A considerable amount of evidence and speculation pointed to the likelihood that the engineer may have misunderstood and/ or misinterpreted the signal immediately before that point, which was different from all the others (if I recall correctly). There was at least 1 thread on here about that. I don’t recall seeing the final NTSB or FRA report or the conc
There is…and always has been…of sorts a “standard” first set by the Association of American Railroads in thier Standard Codes and Rules. NORAC, the current system,is similar. But it is not practical to have a totally, 100% universal signal system. For one thing, no one engineer is going to work for all railroads in all places. More importantly each railroad has its own specifics of traffic density, traffic speeds, geography, traffic variations, etc. coupled with the number of product suppliers, so that 100% standard complience would not be practical if not unachievable. There would be so many variations and specific applications that such a standard would be virtually obliterated. A high density, high speed passenger operation demands a completely different and desparate signal system than a low or moderate speed single track for just freight services while a track or set of tracks that handles both freight and passenger needs sometihng else. It is difficult today to think that at one time there were hundreds of railroads, each with its own unique style of operating and differing needs of equipment and operation. While mergers have erased a lot of that uniqueness, the differing needs still exist, and adapting one signal system has been slow in evovling. It just never will be complete.
I’m very fascinated by signalling systems and the fact that in spite of NORAC there really isn’t any standard. Case in point, the Long Island Railroad and (I think) Metro-North pulled out of NORAC at the last minute. I did some wayside railfanning on the LIRR and they are pure Pennsy position light signals. The former NYC Water Level Route (the east bank, used by Metro-North and AMTK) has very unique transit-style signals with the kind of aspects I don’t see in the NORAC charts. The west bank (CSX River Line) is being converted to very-modern “Darth Vader” style NORAC compliant signals.
The variety is endless and very disturbing. Search the web for “mindset” and “signal aspect” for horror stories of engineers using trackage rights. It’s eye-opening and very disturbing.
Disturbing to whom? Railroaders? The FRA? The NTSB? Hobbyists?
I take your exception to the claim there is no standard. There is a standard promulgated by the FRA which has the force of law, and a standard maintained by each railroad at considerable expense and with considerable judgement, experience, and diligence. Just because there are different aspects with different indications on different railroads does not mean there is no standard. The FRA has judged the standard to be sufficient to achieve a high level of safety. Anyone who has ever dealt with the FRA on its regulatory process, and what it considers safe, learns quickly that the FRA believes we can live in a world where nothing ever goes wrong and no one ever even gets a paper cut.
Perhaps the word you intended to use was “uniformity.” Uniformity in signals has not occurred because the world is not uniform, but composed of a broad geographic variety and many different economic potentials. Uniformity in some cases makes economic sense, and in other cases it is senseless. Railroads did not c
The AAR does not have a signal standard. AREMA has recommended practices. Perhaps that’s you’re thinking of.
RWM