Corey, I can only speak for myself, but I read you loud and clear. [:)] Hear, hear.
My read on this is that a few members don’t like how WPF has been spilling over the weekend. It’s no big deal to me, but apparently that’s what’s broken here.
I think WFP has been going fine since the moderators cracked down on the troll problem last month. However I am getting concerned about the direction the latest WFP has taken since yesterday. In particular, the forum critics are hammering Jeff again.
Overall I find that the more rules there are, the more it stifles participation. I’m for common sense guidelines like keeping a reasonable limit on the number of pictures, and sharing the scale you’re modeling in. But these should be guidelines, not hard rules - unless our hosts want to make them such. Remember, this is supposed to be fun and (hopefully) inspirational.
Thanks, Bruce, for your reply. My question, I should confess, was meant to be rhetorical.
A few of our membership have taken it upon themselves to adapt to what they perceive is a change in either circumstances or need. They have seen WPF go from a fun thread five weekends ago to a critical, acrimonious, and hurtful string of posts that runs essentially all week. True, this is in response to a change in behaviour by one poster, mostly, but the attacks and vitriolic nature of the criticism in a few instances has been damaging.
There is another side to it, though. The quality and variety of the WPF photos, if I may judge them, have improved markedly over the summer. Many more posters have begun to show what they have produced, and not just new friends, but old friends here are “on the move” again, too. So, we should not be surprised that formerly quiet individuals have felt emboldened and are now sharing what they do. Good for us! We get a lot of good and a dose of bad.
So, to get back to my rhetorical question, what is broke is that the forum membership has changed over the past three months. None of us should be surprised that with new posters, or when “olde posters” with new information or learning begin to communicate with us in new ways, our forum’s character or tone, maybe just its pace, will be altered perceptibly. That comes as an affront, to be pointed and frank about it, to some of our membership who like things just as they were…who were hanging around here precisely because it had become comfortable to them and for which they had come to feel a strong ownership. These are words offered from one who is schooled in human conflict and its analysis and management… [angel]
Personally, I have always felt I was in complete control over what it was to which I exposed myself in these forums, and I don
I agree 100%, which makes me wonder why you wrote…
“In particular, the forum critics are hammering Jeff again.”
It seems you’re the one bringing up an issue that has soured this forum for many. I’ve read all the replies and I couldn’t find any mention of Jeff other than his reply. It’s almost gotten to the point where we can’t discuss photography or modeling or compliment someone’s good photography and modeling without it’s being taken as a slap in Jeff’s face. There’s no magic there. Jeff is just one other contributor to this forum, no better, no worse, than anyone else. No one on this forum, including Jeff deserves to have a personality cult created around. It’s just my opinion, but I think that everyone, critic and supporter alike, need to understand that and get over it.
If the moderator wants to delete this thread because of what I’ve said, go for it; but that’s my story, and I believe it’s a fair assessment of the situation, and I’m stickin’ to it.
Ray
Ray,
I wrote what I did about Jeff because I can’t imagine its ‘fun’ to be singled out as he has week after week. I’m not advocating that everyone HAS to like his pictures and/or modeling, or join the ‘cult’ around him. But it doesn’t mean people should dump on him (or anyone else) who they don’t feel is doing a good job. To me harsh unsolicited criticism to the point of personal attack is not what WFP (or anything else on this forum) should be about.
I noticed a lock on the current WPF topic. I guess someone else agrees that all those ‘criticisms’ really did cross the line on personal attacks?
Yes, thanks Bergie! I guess that should calm down some people (bet they got an e-mail too…).
"Guard your tongue, for it is highly dangerous; Unguarded words can cause terrible distress. A single bad word can destroy a vast quantity of good, A wound caused by fire will eventually heal; but a wound caused by the tongue leaves a scar that never heals.
- Valluvar
Lately I’ll go a number of days without checking these forums, while working in a few others. But when I do pop in, I stick around mostly out of morbid curiousity.
WPF lately is a lot like a wreck on the highway; you can’t help but look, even though you know the sight should be repugnant to you. So it is here.
I’m going to mention Jeff too, and Jeff, my apologies, but you’re just a visible symptom of what’s become of these forums.
Jeff, like many folks, has been here for a long time. I joined in 2003, but didn’t really become active until early 2006, so I don’t count myself there. But I’ve seen a fair number of very good modelers silently slip away. Many remain, but the vacant ranks are frequently filled by folks who are just too critical for their own good. Some have great talent; others should perhaps reconsider their own work before assailing that of others. Many of the old-schoolers wish that they could maintain the forums as they were, not as they’re becoming, Jeff likely among them.
Jeff does some pretty decent stuff considering the enormous constraints he’s working under, both physical and financial. Now, I would not likely emulate Jeff’s work (such as his removing the grill of a diesel shell to vent an overheating decoder), but I just don’t need to comment on it if I don’t agree. But Jeff, let’s be fair buddy, you’ve been flooding the forums with photos and examples of your work, presumably looking for comments. You have to expect a few negatives sometimes. I don’t agree with personal bashing or trolling, but if one cannot take constructive criticism, one should think twice about putting one’s work out there.
Overall, I’ve noted a decline in “chivalry,” along with an increase in personal attacks, trolls, and folks who–how shall I put this?–call people out without anything of their own to show. I won’t ment
I agree
[quote user=“rayw46”]
[quote user=“MAbruce”]
Ray,
I wrote what I did about Jeff because I can’t imagine its ‘fun’ to be singled out as he has week after week. I’m not advocating that everyone HAS to like his pictures and/or modeling, or join the ‘cult’ around him. But it doesn’t mean people should dump on him (or anyone else) who they don’t feel is doing a good job. To me harsh unsolicited criticism to the point of personal attack is not what WFP (or anything else on this forum) should be about.
I noticed a lock on the current WPF topic. I guess someone else agrees that all those ‘criticisms’ really did cross the line on personal attacks?
[
Now boys, stop all your bickering, or you’re all going to have a nap! [:D]
All of the above, is why I don’t belong to a club.
C’mon! We need more photos! We’ve only had one, and now we’re bickering over…what? I forgot what!
Rich, might I reccomed turning off the flash? Other than that, I have no qualms about your photo.[tup]
Here’s something to add.
(Warning to dial-up users, it’s a movie)
http://picasaweb.google.com/TrainManTy/TylerSTrainPix04/photo#5110494089780078754
In a round about way, your comment relates directly to my very recent post in nof’s thread in “layouts” about what is wrong with the NMRA. I invite readers here to have a look and respond.
Let me add this, please, to what has been said, most politely (thank-you, thank-you) by the recent three or four posters: there is a provision to have private discourse where pointed and potentially hurtful comments are inappropriate for a shared and subject-sensitive forum. Under each post is a provision for either private email or a personal message. I think some of us should seriously consider using those two facilities more in the interest of helping others save face. Lest I be challenged about my own use of these two, I can assure you that I use them often, and certainly when my overture is best kept between the two of us.
No one is a fool here. Some of our behaviour is downright foolish. So, when enough of us send enough non-complimentary messages in private to the person being contrary or obtuse, that person will surely “get it” in due course. Harassing the person here, no matter how well-meant, or even how well said, becomes counter-productive and merely becomes a pissing contest, to use the vernacular.
Can’t we just all be nice. (Where have I heard that recently?)
We could just call it weekend accomplishments. Then you would naturaly have photos for many of the posts.
I heard it back in the 70’s. WARR, ‘Why can’t we be friends’.
By golly it is locked! I really hadn’t noticed. Whilst occasionally I will jump into the fray more and more I’ve been just going there to look at the pictures or post ones of my own.
More pictures, less talk! Yeah, that’s the ticket![;)]
(Good post Dave V.)
George
I’ve been reading all the criticism on the forum and I see the same as everybody else but being I cannot walk on water as some other forum members can I just don’t throw stones.
Chuck
When I discovered Weekend Photo Fun (WPF), my take was that it was used mainly for “One post per weekend with one (or a few) photos of a project the poster had finished since last weekend (or at least lately)”. Maybe a second post if someone asked for more pictures of the project.
May I respectfully suggest that we use WPF for this purpose, and that if some people want to have a continuous photo blog, or want to show off all their engines, or some such thing, they just create a new thread called e.g. “X’s layout - photo blog” and post updates there every few hours ?
Likewise, if some people want advice on how to take pictures, or how to get air circulating through an engine or some such thing, then they start a new thread with a descriptive title like “how do I ?”.
If you want to offer advice to the general population (without having been asked for advice), then you can also start a new thread. Called e.g. “Some tips on taking photos of projects” or “some tips on how to prevent overheating of engines” or whatever.
If you feel a strong need to make sure that another poster discovers your new thread, then use email or PM.
A
I’ve been reading the thread as it has developed and have a few things to add.
First off, regarding Bruce’s comment about “critics hammering Jeff again”. I disagree with characterizing it has him being hammered gain. The pics of his showing how to alleviate decoder overheating were non-sense. In 30 years in this hobby and 10 years of DCC I have never scene anyone resort to what he did to solve that kind of problem. If you reference is to the comment about what was that big black object in his pic, then you really need to re-consider what “hammering” is. A few others joined in and suggesting guessing what it was. There was no hammering going on, no vicious personal attack. In fact I would hazard to say that Jeff even founf the humor in it when he answered the query. Unfortunately, Jeff brings on some of what he gets by the postings that he does. At times flooding a thread with irrelevant posts such as "I just ballasted some track, here’s a
I like that one.
Millions!!! You must not have been paying much attention!!!About twelve or fourteen years ago I did do the photography for a model construction article a friend of mine had worked up for submission to N Scale magazine; the magazine used five of my photographs with the article and EVERY ONE OF THEM WAS IN-FOCUS AND PROPERLY EXPOSED!!! I WOULD NEVER HAVE ALLOWED THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS TO BE SUBMITTED TO THE MAGAZINE FOR PUBLICATION WERE THEY NOT OF PROFESSIONAL QUALITY. The author of this article and I were prepared for many photoshoots until we got it right!!!
I don’t spend hours looking at things I don’t like. I don’t really spend five minutes looking at things I don’t like. I don’t really spend five seconds looking at things I don’t like. In fact, until about four or five weeks ago I hadn’t looked at WPF for six months or longer, and the only reason I looked at it then is because I have been preparing to bite the bullet and enter the twenty-first century with the purchase of my first digital camera. In the short run I have settled on the purchase of a Sony Alpha100K with an 18-70mm zoom as standard and a 70-200mm zoom as an aftermarked purchase. I never thought I would see the day when I would buy anything except Canon products but there is one of Canon’s new 21 MegaPixel EOS-1Ds Mark IIIs in my future - before I take my wife to Israel year after next - but I do expect that that is going to carry a street price of close to $7,500.00 with an adequate s