Just wanted to clear up questions I’ve gotten regarding which Alclad metalizer to use as there may be some potential confusion. Basically, the question: “Why use Alclad Chrome and not Alclad Stainless Steel?”
A modeler communicated to me that he purchased Alclad’s “Stainless Steel” formula (#ALC-115) and was not happy with his results. Understandably, his thinking when he purchased it was “OK, this is stainless steel paint”. Well, yes, he was correct! There was nothing wrong with that Alclad formula. It does resemble stainless steel, HOWEVER, it features more of a brushed or satin finish after it’s clear coated. It’s the type of finish that you’ll see on many of the stainless steel appliances and tool boxes sold today. Also very common in professional restaurant kitchens, and the panels on traffic signal circuit boxes. Fair enough.
But we pursuing the highly polished, "reflective and/or mirror"stainless steel finish, just like the prototypes. The Budd Company, Pullman Standard and ACF prided themselves on the polished mirror-like reflective qualities of their streamliners.
To imitate this highly reflective finish, it’s a better choice to go with the Alclad #ALC-107 forumla, instead of the #ALC-115. YES, THE 107 BOTTLE SAYS
Thanks very much for the info, I’ll see if my LHS guy can get me some through “Horizon”…I have quite a pile of Walthers Santa Fe, Burlington, and NYC stainless cars that would look really sharp if this was done to them. Especially the Santa Fe and Burlington cars. Seems like this would be the way to go if a person already has the Walthers “Super Chief” cars and doesn’t really want to be bothered with the new ones.
Does anybody know if this product conducts or inhibits electrical contact? I can think pf a few uses either way…
If you are not going to remove the underframe on your Walthers cars when refinishing, make certain that they’re masked off properly so that no paint lands on the electrical contact springs underneath the body. I had some metalizer land on my diner’s springs and discovered that it was a chore to get cured Alclad off of them!
I was asked about the finish on the Walthers Superliners. Like everyone here, I can only offer opinions.
Based on photos I’ve seen, imho, the metalized “Supes” look beautiful but the sheen is too shiny…HOWEVER, I may be wrong as it’s most likely that ALL of the Superliner photos I’ve seen were shot using the camera’s flash (annoying!).
But guys, for those of you that have Superliners or access to them…take a good look for yourselves. If you feel that the sheen is too shiny, then toning down the shine may likely be as simple as applying 1 to 2 coats of a semi-gloss clear on the surface. You can experiment by masking off small areas such as the doors or the bottom corrugated section, and applying the clear.
But if they look right to you, then great! I’m curious as it’s been a long time since I looked at a Walthers Supey at an LHS.
Base Color: It’s hard for me to guess what type of foundation color the Superliners have because every photo I’ve seen on the web has a different light exposure/position relative to the car. That’s why I always prefer to look at a model up close in real daylight to get a true color perspective.
Just Google-Image “Walthers Plated Superliners” and you’ll see that in some shots submitted by modelers, the foundation looks dark-grayish or black, while in other photos the foundation appears “silverish”. Indoor photographs, digital or film, can be brain twisting fun when one tries to identify hues!
Another point: If the Superliners were metalized with a 3 step process then there is a base color foundation, likely in the black to gray range. However, if they were painted with a 1-step (all in one) process, it’s likely that the primary tint in the metalizer is silver based and darkened as needed.
Walthers calls them “plated”, so it’s not likely that they are painted at all, but rather plated as they say, just like the chrome parts in plastic model kits, except of course using a SS plating.
Thanks ModelMaker. I found out that it is the same process used on many of the “chrome” plastic automobile parts we see today.
Answering a question regarding the basecoat:
“If the gray color looks a little bumpy, will the Alclad still look OK?”
The smoother your base color’s surface, the better and more realistic the metalized finish will appear. A bumpy texture will be noticeable.
Suggested solution: If your cured gray base color has a textured or orange peel finish, carefully wet-sand (horizontal motions only) with 3M 600 grit wet/dry paper and finish up with 3M 1500 grit wet/dry paper. Distilled or soft water in a small container eliminates the potential for hardwater staining. Don’t be in a rush and check your surface carefully after washing off the sanding residue. Wipe your shell clean and re-coat the surface with your gray basecoat (or clear if using acrylics).
Before applying it, test your mix on a scrap car or piece of plastic to make certain that you won’t get orange peel or texturing again.
If your paint mixture is properly thinned and you’re still getting a textured surface, check your airbrushing speed and distance. You may have to slow your speed, get closer to your shell, or both. Practice
A modeler had a minor problem with the base color cracking after applying Alclad II Chrome on top of it. Problem was that he airbrushed the Alclad metalizer on top of the base color within 30 minutes of applying the base! Yipes! Way too soon! As Guido from the Pixar movie “CARS” would say: "Ay Luigi! Whatsa matta? Yousa aska-for-a trouble…eh?!
But we make mistakes and learn from them, especially in this hobby. This scenario happened to me on a Rivarossi coach I was refinishing 2 years ago due to my being in a rush and seeking fast results. I assumed that the Scale Coat 2 base was tough enough to take “the heat” from the Alclad. But I assumed incorrectly and chewed on some humble pie afterwards.
You have to let the base color CURE thoroughly, whether it’s solvent based, an acrylic, or even automotive paint. Alclad is an alcohol based lacquer and can attack an uncured or semi-cured paint finish.
Although I admit to having waited 1 days on some refinishing jobs, I now play it safe and let the shells sit 3 days minimum before coating the cured Scale Coat 2 gray base with the Alclad II #107. Being patient does pays off.
I first saw those gorgeous California Zephyr cars at my LHS, Happy Hobo Trains in 2007. I did notice a slight yellowish hue on the metalized finishes and remember posting that on this forum. Here’s a photo of the observation car that you’re referring to.
Overall, they are beautiful cars. All I can humbly suggest is that you experiment. If I were to attempt to match my Walthers or Rivarossi cars to the BLI Zephyr’s finish, I would try the following using a junker passenger car shell or several pieces of smooth plastic, like old compact disc case lids:
According to info from Frank Loch, Alclad offers 4 clear transparent color paints, Red, Green, Blue, & Yellow. They can be mixed with the various Alclad metalizers to “tint” them, including the chrome 107. After pouring the Alclad 107 into your airbrush gravity cup or jar, add small amounts of the yellow tint and stir it. Spray your test piece and compare. Continue to add the yellow tint until you achieve a hue that is similar to that of the BLI units.
Remember, experimenting is part of the fun in this hobby!
Keep in mind that I haven’t done this and am only basing this idea on my work with tinting and blending automotive paint colors in the past.
If they are ‘plated’ it may be a process called ‘Vacuum Plating’ that is used as noted on model car kits for the chrome finish. I worked at a professional model shop in New York back in the 70’s and 80s’ that had a small vacuum plating system that we used for Avon cosmetic bottle mockups. The process required a high gloss base coat (white), a vacuum chamber where pure aluminum foil (Reynolds Wrap actually!) was vaporized onto the model surface, and a final clear coat that was baked on. After that, if needed, we would dye the clear top coat to make gold, bronze, copper or nickel/stainless finishes. If a satin finish was required we would put a satin clear finish over the final color. It was really amazing what you could do with this process.
There is also a true electro plating process that was developed for plastics for the automotive industry and is still used today in many industries. I believe the American Flyer S gage trains of the 50’s and later used a similar process on their passenger cars and some locomotives.
Just a quick descriiption on plating plastics as I know of it from my experiences. There could be newer processes that I am not aware of (and that could very likely be the case!).
Farellaa, thank you for that info. I’m most curious and am going to perform more research on vacuum and electro-plating.
HEY GUYS! [<:o)]
Check out this video clip featuring a gorgeous SS consist. As I’ve stated on other threads, it’s video clips like these that I hope help to encourage you guys to “go for it” on your Athearn, Walthers, Rivarossi, and IHC streamliners. Watch the entire clip. Enjoy! [:D]
As mentioned before, here is great option to use over your gray basecoat if it has little to no gloss. A high gloss base is essential to get the stainless steel effect. The bottle on the right is Alclad Clear Base (#ALC-303). Available in 4 oz bottles. Although you can use high gloss clears from other manufacturers, the cool factor here is that after you spray this on top of your gray base…it’s ready for the Alclad 107 in just ONE HOUR! Now that’s a major time saver. [;)]
You can spray this on top of acrylics or solvent bases.
I thought I’d answer a modeler’s question here instead of starting a new thread. I’ll keep him anonymous as he states he doesn’t want to stir the pot on the prototype modeler’s forum he’s also a member of.
His concern is that a small model railroad business will be offering custom paint services on plastic stainless steel passenger cars. His issue is that they will be painted with Alclad Aluminum.
My humble opinion: Cool. With some aged stainless steel hues, Alclad aluminum may fit the bill, especially for ACF streamlined cars. However, for the majority of Budd and PS stainless steel cars that we see in photos, videos, and in real life…aluminum may be too white. But this is subjective and I’ll never claim to be right on target.
Check out these photos of the same car. Amazing what a little polishing and photographic lighting conditions make:
Way too soon! As Guido from the Pixar movie “CARS” would say: "Ay Luigi! Whatsa matta? Yousa aska-for-a trouble…eh?!
