At this point, several years past the loss of Floquil and Polly paints to model railroaders, perhaps MR should have a staff member (Cody) do a thorough analysis of paint equivalence and not only publish it in a monthly issue, but include it as an accessible resource on the website for all to use.
That way, it could be periodically updated and refreshed in a proactive way, saving many of us grief and frustration in our painting efforts.
Note: DONT forget spray paints- Rustoleum and Krylon are always adding to their color schedules every time I am at a Walmart or a home store.
Thanks to Chris for his groundwork on this very important topic!
While I appreciate what Chris has done, I think this would be a terrible idea for MR to do. Don’t the MR staffers already have enough things on their plates? I think that we are big boys (and girls) and can do a little paint matching and sampling ourselves. Geez, this ain’t rocket science.
Not to sound snippy, but why don’t you do the thorough analysis and submit it as an article?
If I had the knowledge or experience to write such an article, I would have already done so- but, like many modelers, I rely on the greater wisdom of others more often than not.
Where a single company- Testors, I believe, has parallel product lines and then eliminates one for various reasons, I would think that a hobby-industry magazine such as MR would have talent and industry access to more effectively do this.
As for this NOT being rocket science, the little I have read about color science and the physics & chemistry behind paint production make it seem very complex.
Some of us also may be color-challenged for all you know, making paint matching not a matter of “being grown up”, but a condition which DOES require some assistance at times.
While you are correct, it is not rocket science, you do indeed sound snippy by suggesting that others do the work to submit it as an article.
We, in turn, could suggest the same to you, but again, that would be snippy.
Instead, I’m going to submit this bit of information: For the article to be done properly, one would need to test multiple brands, and multiple colors for each, which would mean one would be spending multiple dollars, which some of us (myself included here) could not afford to do.
Because of just the economics involved, I feel it is better suited to a company (like Kalbach) who would be recouping the expense via the profits of publishing (yes, I know, they are NOT getting rich, but the do turn profits, otherwise they would close down.) to do the testing.
(As an aside, I love hearing from people “I don’t mean to sound _____, but,…”, as that is then exactly how they sound. Working with John Q. Public really allows one to see this.)
I, for one, would even be willing to pay a small, reasonable fee, to purchase just such a guide from a company such as Kalmbach, as this type of guide, while costing the publisher time and money, could be received very well by the general modeling public, allowing, (that reasonable fee to purchase just such a guide,) the ability to recoup the expense involved. (Note: I do not think that if I, you, or some other modeler, did this and charged a small fee for said guide, that it would work. As an “unknown”, the fee would never be spent by most people, even if they were interested in the guide, as the “unknown” part will turn some, if not most, away from spending their precious few dollars for modeling on it. For proof, I myself would be
I would think that it would be up to a company such as Testors. They are the one with different product lines and they are the ones that also discontinued Floquil and Polly Scale. If anyone should put out a cross over chart, it should be them.
Do the railroads themselves have Pantone color indexes available for their paints? I suppose that information would be proprietary, but it would be helpful.
Is it wrong to suggest that this could be an article that someone, besides an MR staffer, can put together?
You could suggest that, but I don’t have a need. Why would I write it?
Glad I made your day!
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I, for one, would even be willing to pay a small, reasonable fee, to purchase just such a guide from a company such as Kalmbach, as this type of guide, while costing the publisher time and money, could be received very well by the general modeling public, allowing, (that reasonable fee to purchase just such a guide,) the ability to recoup the expense involved. (Note: I do not think that if I, you, or some other modeler, did this and charged a small fee for said guide, that it would work. As an “unknown”, the fee would never be spent by most people, even if they were interested in the guide, as the “unknown” part will turn some, if not most, away from spending their precious few dollars for modeling on it. For proof, I myself would be extremely reluctant to purchase such a guide if was not from a well known company, such as Kalbach, etc…) Therefore, I do feel that Kalbach (via Model Railroader) or some other published magazine company, should indeed be the one doing this article. It would be helpful to many, and would (IM
That’s still Chris P’s chart, as I’m pretty sure he goes by shoofly various places.
Yes, a chart like this is a project and Chris P’s chart is very much appreciated. But it is something that does fit into the mission of a publication more than a forum posting in order that it be widely accessible. I know Chris is a busy guy, but it might be something he eventually chooses to update and/or rework into an article on a regular basis. Every few years would be often enough to catch most new colors.
While it may seem like a simple matter of look, see, and match, men esspecially have issues with color perception, depending on our genetic inheritance. This can be a real problem and one that, like any other disability, is really not a matter of trying harder, etc. You just need a chart sometimes…
Yes, they would, but there’s a problem with that: Pantone isn’t paint colors. Its ink and uses a complex system of 14 pigments in various ratios. You could figure out some way to translate those pigments into paint, but then you’re going to blow your budget on licensing the blends from Pantone.
I don’t see a need for it: one need only look at the colour and you should be able to see if it’s “right” or have some idea of what it would take to make it right. Rather than looking at the colour’s name on the bottle, look at the colour of the paint in the bottle.
That works for many, but not all. Colorblindness in its various forms is a peculiarly male affliction (in most cases). What you see isn’t always what you get. Sometimes it really isn’t as simple as looking in the bottle.
That’s not only true in Model railroad colors…try Automotive paint colors. You have to do, what is called blending…you have to bleed the new paint, into the old paint, then buff out…otherwise you will see a differance in color, just from being in the elements. A good body shop will do that. Railroads, don’t really care…a nice paint job doesn’t make them any money…close is good enough.
When I first learned that the Polly Scale line of paints was being discontinued, I felt mildly depressed because that was the only paint that I ever used on my structures.
Chances are pretty good that you aren’t going to match a Polly Scale color with another brand’s color, so why even try. Just start all over and find colors that you like and move on.
Outfits like Home Depot, Lowes, Sherwin Williams, etc. match colors all day long with a color spectrometer, and can teach a kid who hasn’t graduated high school to do it in a day, even if he/she is colorblind. Mr.& Mrs. Homeowner can take a swatch of fabric, a sleeve off the living room sofa, or a drape to the paint department and the spectrometer will yield the formulation. They go home with a gallon of paint that’s a great match.
Chances are Kalmbach could rent or lease one for a time, and it sounds like a good project for a summer intern who’s looking for a career in fashion design, not necessarily model railroading. When done, return the unit, sell it, or donate it to the fashion design school and write the whole thing off.
Could also make an offer to the Big Box stores on a used one. Only takes a phonecall. Nothing ventured, . . . .
That was sorta the point I was trying to make, Mike. If you think that a colour is right or wrong, then your opinion would likely lead you in the same direction when looking for a match. Perhaps someone else would agree that you had made a good match, but note that it was unfortunate that your original colour choice was wrong for your chosen prototype. [;)][:P]
I’m fortunate in not being afflicted by colorblindness. If I was, however, I would want someone who wasn’t to try to make a match by eye. And I could probably live with the results, since I probably couldn’t see the difference.
Better yet would be something that would get me a “close enuff” match based on brand and color. I know several comments have referred to things like matching paint on cars. I really don’t think that’s an issue here for most. We’re not trying to match a color to repair part of an existing paint job. Instead, we want something that tells us what’s an approximate match. If we’re fixing the fender of a 56 Chevy in 1:87, then people should use the same techniques that body work shops do, but that’s mostly the exception rather than the rule in painting models.
For instance, if I was trying to match Rio Grande Aspen Gold, there would be two main reasons to do so. One would be to paint a car and get it to come close enough to the cars I have that are already decorated in Aspen Gold to be convincing. There is at least one such paint on the market in the past (probably more) so I’d like to know the other brands that represent themselves as matching Aspen Gold. Given the spread of colors I already have on models that are Aspen Gold, I wouldn’t expect an exact match, except perhaps with a model painted with the same paint (and that would likely be more by coincidence). But something that looks like it’s in the fading range of what can be seen in color pics would work for that.
The other thing I’d like to know would be colors that are close, but not really sold as Aspen Gold. Some might even be a better match than those that actually say they’re Aspen Gold.
All of this is subjective, but almost none of us lives near a hobby shop that stocks them all so we can make the side by side comparisons that people are suggesting. Considering the cost of model paint, you actually want to know if th