Friends, I’m getting ready to jump into the modern operating age, though with some trepidation. I have the following Athearn Genesis power to upgrade to DCC/sound: two MT-4s; a GP9 and early F3A/B duo and even two old Athearn BlueBoxes, a GP9 and an SD9. The most difficult will probably be an old Roundhouse/MDC kit-built 2-6-2 w/ Vandy tender. First, what recommendations are out there for the brands and models of decoders to buy? Second, will these have integrated sound? Third, recommendations for speakers? And finally, both the early-issue Genesis F3 A and B units are powered. Shall I presume that both have to be upgraded? This is a lot, but I’ve got the time, if perhaps not the dollars!
Those older models - the ROundhouse steamer in particular, but the Blue Box locos as well - test them on DC and check the current draw when the motor is stalled. You need a decoder that can handle this as a peak current, and most HO sound decoders top out at 1.25 amps peak. If these locos draw more than this, you can either go with a non-sound decoder, which typically have higher peak current capacity, or remotor the locos with a modern can motor to reduce the power draw.
If yo really want sound in them all, the go with integrated decoders that have the soudns AND runt he motor, using two decodes is a huge pain and witht he wide selection of sound + motor decoders now available, it’s pointless to use dual decoders.
For ideas on how to go about this on these different locos, look at the TCS web site, they have many pictures of both sound and motor only installs in various locos. And also look at the Yahoo Group Rick Bell RPM Clinic which has in the files section a whole bunch of very detailed step by step installs of sound decoders in various locos. You don;t have toi follow these exactly, just use them to get ideas on how to fit the decoder and speaker in using any similar size decoder. Starting from scratchm, it’s very advantageous to stick with one brand of decoder when posisble, it will make managing your eventual fleet easier. I’ve standardized on Loksound for my sound locos, replacing all others. I have just one sound loco left that has a different decoder in it. Any sound decoders I buy for future installs will all be Loksound. For future non-sound installs I will probably be buying Lokpilot, since all the motor control parameters will be the same as the Loksound. My current non-sound locos all have TCS motor-only decoders, that was my standard. I have no motor-only locos with any other decoder in them. When they’re all the same, you get to know the basic setting CVs, so deplying a new loco is simple.
In N scale I might think differently, since it
I won’t try to address everything but here are some considerations, opinions.
Most decoder brands come in motor/lighting non-sound as well as more expensive sound decoders. From what I’ve read in the forum, I concluded a couple years ago that the LokSound sound decoders were getting the most good comments in terms of motor control and sound file quality, with the added benefit of (if you also bought the LokProgrammer) of being able to switch the sound file in the future. (An example, they added dual prime mover sounds for the E units so I was able to upgrade my E6s). So I went down the LokSound road, mostly buying the $80 Select 6Aux, which I hard wire in (it has an 8-pin plug) as it’s less expensive than the Direct board replacement version and also takes less room.
Then, however, along came the new TCS WowSound decoders. I seem to see many positive comments on those so far, so I would encourage weighing them against the LokSounds. Then there are the very new Tsunami2s, but I don’t know how those stack up. (I would not recommend the older Tsunamis, particularly, especially the diesel sounds (and the motor control is so-so, and they are a pain to speed match for consisting as they lack CV5 & CV6).
And if you look at the TCS site you will see many examples of installations, and it looks like the WowSounds have many “kits” for certain applications which can fit nicely. The TCS site installation pages are great places to see what might be involved with many locos, no matter what decoder you actually choose.
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Athearn/F3A%20WK/F3A%20WK.html
I must say that sticking to one type of sound or non sound decoder is excellent advice,
Paul’s advice is good. He provides a lot of information but it’s worth studying. I’ll also second what basementdweller said about sticking to one or two decoder manufacturers. I have a mish-mash of different decoders many of which were installed a long time ago. The problem with that is the different decoders require different commands so trying to remember which command to use with which locomotive is nearly impossible, at least for me. I now install Loksound Selects exclusively, and as funds permit, I will go back and replace all the QSI and Soundtraxx decoders even though they work reasonably well (emphasis on ‘reasonably’ - they don’t hold a candle to Loksound). I even have one MRC decoder in a steam engine. It will be scrapped. MRC decoders are terrible. I bought it in my ‘totally naive’ stage. Ignorance was bliss![swg][(-D]
Loksound is not your only choice for a good, reliable, easy to operate decoder. Lots of people seem really happy with TCS decoders. I believe Lenz is a respected name too, although they are not as common in North America. Tsunamis have yet to prove themselves as far as I am concerned. I’m not familiar with their newest releases but their older decoders required a lot of patience to set them up properly. Loksound Selects work great right out of the box, and they will even fine tune themselves with just a couple of commands.
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Dave
Thanks, Dave. Loksound is certainly getting a good promo here and I’ve been on their website this afternoon. Here’s one additional item: I picked up a Walthers Protom SD-9 about six months ago that has Tsunami DCC/sound. Don’t know if it’s the newer Tsunami or not. In any case, should I be thinking of swapping that out and, if so, will a direct exchange with a Loksound be possible?
John
One other stumbling block in certain engines is finding a suitable space for the speaker. Many DC designs incorporate a large weight to increase traction. Sometimes this weight needs to be cut away or milled out to make room for the speaker. And, larger speakers generally give better sound.
In addition, if the current draw of the motor is too high, the motor must be replaced. This can be costly and difficult too, particularly in steamers.
When I encounter one of these difficult installs, I usually decide to buy a new unit with factory installed DCC and sound. Many times this is less expensive in the long run and you may well end up with a better running locomotive too.
Check LokSound, Soundtraxx and TCS sites for decoder specs. All the specs are there. Google the sites.
Litchfield Station and Tony’s Trains has the info for most also.
I keep a couple dial calipers handy for measuring.
For older DC locos current draw, I have used the below for some years. My four meters are accurate enough for model railroad work.
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm
When only analog meters were around, the ones with mechanical pointers, I used the meters the same way in home project circuits and checking older open frame motors in DC locos.
You might consider changing any locos with light bulbs to LED’s. Generaly a 1k, 1/4 watt resistor is needed if the decoder does not have onboard resistors for LED’s. That allows about nine to ten MA of current.
A few decoders have them and some have 5 volt ouputs for 5 volt light bulbs. Most outputs are 12 volt to maybe 14 volts which does depend on what the DCC voltage is from the system. Again, decoder companies show the specs in the instructions.
Rich
For the Genesis Fs, if you have the option of a drop-in decoder, use it. I used some inexpensive (NCE D13SR) decoders on a pair of Athearn Fs with Intermountain bodies (not sure if they were Genesis) and while the conversion was easy, fitting the wiring into the carbody has been a nightmare. A drop-in decoder would have cost $5 to $10 more and would have been worth it. I did convert one blue box Athearn PB that had a can motor, also with a D13SR, and it worked like a charm. Another BB Athearn has given me problems, but that may be down to a bad decoder. (For the record, buying hard-wired decoders was a mistake – I mean to buy D13SRJs which have a detachable harness). I tested some REALLY old BB Athearns with the old gray “Jet” motor and they draw too much current – 2 amps when slipping and 1 when running. I have converted one gold-motor Athearn (a P42) that was well within limits, and have an Athearn-powered Stewart U25B on deck. Only two lights so it’ll probably get one of the D13SRs. Hope this helps.