But, there’s nothing to stop the contstruction of intermodal terminals at Yakima or Yuma - if the money’s right. (One of the reasons I favor RoadRailer/RailMate equipment for this service over containers is the ease and low expense of their terminals vis a vis the cost of a container terminal.)
Given the high volumes of this business - I believe the money will be “right” in many cases. The railroad will have to move the empty IM equipment from the unloading terminal to the loading terminal. But so what, the trucker has to basically make that move too. And the railroad can do it a lot cheaper than the trucker can. (The trucker, of course, won’t go through a terminal.)
As to Washington, I dispute the distances. The closest container terminal to Yakima is Quincy, WA. A mere 82 miles from Yakima, not 350.
Reason I said Seatlle is SIMPLE THAT IS WERE THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE LIVE. You build a warehouse for FOOD were the PEOPLE LIVE. You GROW FOOD WERE THERE IS SPACE yes there may be a terminal 30 or so miles away however JB HUNTS Nearest TERMINAL IS SEATLLE not were you WANT IT. See that is the sticky point JB is the carrier and they need the trucks were the containers are going to be UNLOADED from the trains. Chassis need Repairs so do TRUCKS and the REEFER UNITS all that is EXPENSIVE IF NOT DONE IN HOUSE. A tire done as a Service call will set you back 700-800 bucks by the time all is said and done SAME TIRE in your own shop 400 or LESS. Who has that much cash to WASTE on Mileage or Shop labor time most carriers DO NOT. When dealing with a margin of 1 to 2 CENTS a MILE ANY AND ALL EXPENSES YOU CAN CUT YOU DO IT. That is why I see this as a VERY EXPENSIVE MISTAKE. IF THERE WAS MONEY TO BE MADE IN INTERMODAL REEFER ENGLAND PRIME AND FFE SURE AS HELL WOULD BE DOING IT. Most of their trailers you see on the cars now I asked a few buddies see it helps to have FRIENDS THAT WORK FOR THEM see they are EMPTIES BEING MOVED TO WERE THEIR ARE LOADS. The only carrier that has a Intermodal division is England and they are LOSING THEIR BUTTS ON IT. IF NOT FOR MCDONALDS FRENCH FRIES THEY WOULD NOT EVEN BE DOING IT AT ALL.
Sure build a Intermodal Terminal at Yuma that will sit UNUSED for 7 MONTHS A YEAR for 50 MILLION BUCKS. UP will get right on it. Same in Salinsas. Look at the EMPTY Mileage the UP racks up on the reefers on that Solid Reefer train for UPSTATE NY. Loads in EMPTIES back and they are less than 4 hours away from NYC and close to 4 plants of Kraft Foods 2 for Carriage HOUSE foods and a whole bunch of OTHERS are in the AREA. Why because JUST ABOUT NO ONE WANTS TO USE THE RAILROADS FOR FRESH FOOD ANYMORE. The ICC was NEVER THE ISSUE the Truck
Your distances in Oregon are a bit high. Although some of the fruit and berry areas are up to 290 miles from Portland (Bandon and Medford), others are 50 -180 miles away all down the 5 in the Willamette Valley from Salem to well south of Eugene.
With were these Containers are going to have to go for Pick ups for Produce and with CVSA 2010 coming INTO EFFECT SLEEPERS WILL BE NEEDED. Here are the locations of Oscar Myer Plants in the Midwest DC in Aurora Plants in Madison WI Davenport IA Columbia MO another in MO 3 in Up State NY DC in PA plant in Fullerton CA DC in City of INdustry CA and Ontario CA and Stockton CA and I know I am missing a few. So your a JB Hunt Reefer Divison Driver you come on duty at 0700 in Chicagowith a load for 0900 Aurora DC YOUR 14 HOUR CLOCK IS RUNNING RIGHT THEN. Make Delivery then are Dispatched to PICK UP IN MADISON 3 Hours away. You have 10 hours drive and 12 hours on your 14 Not an issue however your Container needs a Washout Stop get it cleaned out loose an hour Get to Madison Your load is not ready 5 hour delay AND IT DOES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. Down to 6 hours left on your 14 and you have a 4 hour drive back to Chicago. You can not Stop your clock since you DO NOT HAVE A SLEEPER AT ALL. Check bak after 4 hours Find out Meat for Production was DELAYED load will be another 4 hours late BETTER GET A HOTEL FOR THE NIGHT NO WAY CAN YOU LEGALLY GET BACK TO TERMINAL. Thius is what can happen on the outbound side hauling anything reefer.
That and JB FORGETS ONE THING ALL PRODUCE MOVES IN CALI IN THE SUMMER IT IS IN THE NORTH FALL AND WINTER IT COMES OUT OF YUMA. So they need to realize that hauling CANS WILL NOT WORK. See that is WHAT KILLED THE ICE the Drayage when your hauling trailers 400 miles all over the state geting them loaded your eating your Profit margins. Best to haul a load close to were your going to then head to the Produce houses. Between April to about Late September Salinsas is WERE YOUR HAULING VEGGIES FROM. Late September your around Bakersfield area for a month then it is YUMA til April. I did it for 3 years I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. I never had a cargo claim heck I had
Comment about Or/ Wa . Yakima or Wenatchee to Seattle is roughly 180 road miles.
The Nursery areas in Oregon just outside Forest Grove which is 30 miles to the railyards in Portland. 2 years ago, garden nurseries were using rail in a big way. The problem the rails ran into was on the other end. Most garden/nursery stock loads were multiple stop loads(8-12 stops were not uncommon) with driver to tailgate product at receiver . From what I heard towards the end of the season many of the local drivers(who are owner ops) were refusing to haul them as it involves a lot of work. For those of you who want a description think of a whole bunch of potted plants stacked floor to ceiling front to back. (5 to 8 high 6-15 wide) to total something like 45000lbs of plants. and you have pick these up and move
I would like to remind you that many of the coolers and other grower facilities sit “UNUSED for 7 MONTHS”. If you have enough business to justify the investment when it does get used.
At the company were I worked when I asked about rail here is what I was told, this was in the late 80’s to mid 90’s.
1.On several occasions when problems happened in the field or at the coolers and loading was delayed they could not get the railroad to either a. hold the train b. reschedule load outs.
On one occasion 30 truckloads(with priority reservations) showed up at the gate right at cutoff time. The railroad had been called with an eta when trucks left the cooler. The description I got was that someone stalled the gate so that all these loads missed the train. We had a delivery commitment and the loads had to move, So these ended up on the road. The company had to scramble to cover these with both teams and last minute relays. (the latter was quite expensive)
To add insult to injury the railroad then demanded we pay them for the missed loads, inspite of the fact that the train left fully loaded. On other occasions when my company tried rescheduling the originating terminals(Los Angeles instead of Fresno), they were told that they could only load out of the latter. Now 20 years later managers remember a lot of this frustration.
What happened towards the end was that Fresh produce was being trucked and only the frozen stuff was moving by rail.
One of the impressions I’ve had about railroads is that they seem to be real good at moving a whole lot of bulk stuff(Grain, Coal) that needs to move from one place to another.
However the small stuff the railroads treat like loose change.And if it falls on the ground so what.
OK Ed, I wasn’t going to post here any more but, I feel I have to.
You’re so convinced your right. That we “CAN’T” do it. What makes you feel like you have better intel that a $4 Billion dollar logistics firm with a large staff of engineers and some of the best minds in the industry? How can you compare your limited experience to the talent within this company? Please, no more CAPS LOCK. You don’t need to use color, caps or bold letters to make a point. It doesn’t make your points any more solid.
You’re right. YOU could not. But JBHUNT can and will. Remember in the mid 1980’s when Johnny Bryan Hunt purchased 13,000 rail containers? Remember when that same fella signed an unprecidented contract with BNSF? (And now NS) You know, that company now owned by Mr. Midas Touch hisself, Warren Bufffet. (think he made a bad investment?) So, that being said, YOU think you have it all figured out. That you’re right and JBHT is wrong. That’s how you feel?
In business you take risks. Some pan out. Some don’t. I’d say, from a purely gambling/odds perspective that the odds are HUGELY in favor of JBHT making this a success. And I’m putting my money where my mouth is by investing.
You’re so full of “CAN’T” that you can’t see any possiblity of “CAN”. This is why you never “WILL”. Because you’ve already realized you “CAN’T”.
Thanks for your time. But you’re no longer contributing anything valuable to this conversation. You information is flawed and so is your logic.
Again, let’s revisit this in a year and see how you like the flavor of “Humble Pie”. For n
Everything BUT THE BUILDINGS THEY MOVE and the Refrigunits thate. The Units that cool the Produce from the FIELDS are PORTABLE and are MOVED ALL THE TIME. They ship anything that can be moved to between Salinasa and Yuma. The Growers take the Harversters EVERTHING THAT WILL MOVE. Can you do that will RR Tracks. Heck I asked Drivers that are pulling Produce in California if the Coolers in Salinsas EVEN HAD SIDINGS anymore I was told NO. I called our local BULK food Distributor located right on the Transcon mainline why they stopped getting frozen spuds via railcar. THE SPUDS WERE ARRIVING THAWED OUT. These were coming in NEW Cars that were RUNNING OUT OF FUEL AND THE BNSF WAS NOT BOTHERING TO REFUEL THEM IN TRANSIT. The Bulf foods WAREHOUSE lost 2 contracts because of this and 3 MILLION IN ANNUAL SALES.
Well said - not new, either, as your story above from the mid-1980’s - early 1990’s indicates. John Kneiling used to say that the railroad should just stick to the ‘big stuff’ - driving the train - and leave the marketing and customer relations work to the local outfits who are small enough to care about and respond to such things. That culture may have changed - but I doubt it - there’s not a whole lot of evidence that it has.
Ask a JB Hunt long distance OTR driver what they think. SO Sorry you can not anymore. After he died the Company did what HE SWORE HE NEVER WOULD they got rid of them. JB Hunt for years the only reason THEY have made a profit is Simple they can UNDERCUT anyone on the Longhaul rates with the Intermodal divison that is the ONLY REASON they are still around. 20 Years ago JB was a Just another Training Company that was Worse than Werner and Swift even. I broke down in Champaign at the International Dealer for 2 days in 1994 when JB was still training Drivers. My truck had a Cracked Steering arm and took a couple days for parts to get in. Well in that time 14 JB Hunts were in that shop all from their School 10 for Clutches 3 for U joints 2 needed rear ends and the other 2 were for drivers that overreved and SPUN BEARINGS.
Yet this company cupposedly knows how to haul reefer freight in Containers excuse me if I do not believe YOU. Pulling reefer is a Tottally Differant ANIMAL. When a Reefer Unit goes down you need to wake up and respond to the UNIT and protect that LOAD. You do what ever is NEEDED to keep it in range. Try having an Alt go out in a Reefer in the middle of the night then the Battery goes dead. Is road Maintance going to be smart enough to tell you to put a jumper wire from the Postive Battery post on both the reefer to the truck to get it running. I doubt it Yet any person that has pulled a reefer load will know to do that in a sec. Try having 4 failures on Thanksgiving weekend been there done that yet still protected that load. Some idiot in a suit is not going to KNOW what to do when it is 120 outside reefer unit runs out of fuel because the idiot that pulled it last did not refuel it. Or try geting a reefer unit UNGELLED in the middle of Winter road Maintance is USLESS in that time what matters is the Drivers.&nb
I think you made your point already. Ed seems to be not only “at war with anybody who thinks OTR trucking is easy” but with the companies and maybe himself as well. His information is out of date and consists of unreliable anecdotes that make for fun joking with other drivers, but brings little to the discussion of moving forward. I know that the life of the trucker is hard, but if it is as bad as he makes it sound, you’d think he and all the others would quit. Doesn’t look that way.
Well said - not new, either, as your story above from the mid-1980’s - early 1990’s indicates. John Kneiling used to say that the railroad should just stick to the ‘big stuff’ - driving the train - and leave the marketing and customer relations work to the local outfits who are small enough to care about and respond to such things. That culture may have changed - but I doubt it - there’s not a whole lot of evidence that it has.
Paul North.
In High School read John Kneiling’s articles in trains every chance I could.
One other comment, and this is a little frustration, One of the places I see for real change is the movement of cargos that are in the 100000# to 500000# area. These days if you do not have a rail dock you call your local freight broker who sends forth a cattle call for trucks.
The point I’ll make here is this is the kind of cluster rail should have, but do not even try for.
EDIT - Yep, you’re right [tup] - Google Maps shows it as ‘‘Smurfit-Stone Container Corp.’’, and if you look real close at the northern end of the plant, you can even see a couple of boxcars extending out beyond the weather-roof overhang above the loading dock.
On your other point - 100,000 lbs. = 50 tons, to 500,000 lbs. = 250 tons - that’s like from 2 to 10 truckloads, but only 1/2 to 2-1/2 typical railcar loads, unless it loads
The more things CHANGE the more they stay the SAME in Produce hauling. Here was one of my Normal runs in 2000. This was for picking up either in Yuma or Salinas. Would have about 4-6 Pick ups at differant coolers in those areas. Maybe get 2-4 pallets at all but the LAST STOP then at the last stop fill the trailer up. Then head to final destination were all the produce was delivered. What you want to happen is were the cities are hamstrung by here is what you get from the RR’s and here is all you get to choose from. See the OTR Industry gave CONSUMERS A CHOICE. BTW it was this way 40 years ago WHEN MY FATHER was pulling Produce out of California in a Ice Bunker reefer trailer, So my IDEAS ARE NOT OUTDATED. What has changed is the IDIOTS IN THE DISPATCH OFFICE AND THAT IS IT.