When I left the railroad back in early 80’s there was no such thing as remote control. There was wild stories, about things like that, but no one believed it could ever happen. I would like to know who is getting all the money that is saved from not having a four or five person crew? Is the one person crew paid well to do the same job as it took 4 or 5 to do? If your union signed a remote control agreement, did they not take good care of the employee? Can you imagine the savings for the railroad? They are saving, not having to pay wages to 3 or 4 other people. The savings have to be in the millions of dollars. What could the company, be doing with all that money? I know they don’t spend it on employee relations. I don’t care if they only have one employee on a train, that one employee, should be compensated well. It won’t be long, that the one operating employee with his remote control takes the train to certain spot at the yard limit sign, on the main line gets off, and a person in a building 500 miles away operates that train to destination. Its only a matter of time. Get your paychecks now, because in the near future there won’t be one, to get!
Funny you ask, Bruce. I just got RCO qualified on the BNSF. There is a 60 day hold down, and I was on the virge of getting forced to a spot. In a nutshell, there are 2 man crews. No engineer! These remotes suck! Imagine now trying to switch and have the responsibilities of the engineer, not to mention the loss of a brother’s job. I feel like a friggin’ scab when I run the thing. Virtually no trainhandling experience and pulling 7000 ft. drags. Yep, it is dangerous. We get paid an additional 46 minutes to run them. The UTU sold us out. I have since withdrawn from the UTU and became a BLE member. Mark my word, others have been hurt by them and it will continue. Quantum is now testing satellite controlled trains on the road…you are correct, it won’t be long.
Ken
Yard service is one thing but over the road trains isn’t a good idea.There are too many what ifs here in John Q public land. Someone will likely get hurt.I remember seeing an article about a derailed remote control train blocking an oklahoma interstate.Someone needs to do more safety research.
Joe
I hope who ever makes the satelite/gps train system is not the same group of morons that made the vending machines at my job. If so then we will be loosing to much money and always getting the wrong product 
Icemanmike2-Milwaukee
In Europe, remote controlled switchers have been in use for many years, and now the europeans are indeed working on unmanned freight trains.
I know that the very same (morons) guys that made AC locomotives possible in the US are now working on unmanned freight trains.
This first version is intended for the european market anyway. But so was the first version of AC traction.
http://www.siemens-cargomover.com
Cheers
IF the current employees can be trained to operate thes remote trains safely then It woulden’t be a bad idea. We should be visiting where it is currently working (well) and then see how to make it better…lets face it it will undoubtly lead to the loss of jobs 
Tis is something NO ONE wants!!!
Icemanmike2-Milwaukee
I could see the point of remote control, if it was used by a trainman at the lead end of a cut while shoving to couple up. The engineer would then stay in his cab and take control when the engine is in the lead.
BUT THAT AIN’T HOW THEY DO IT - not here anyway.
the guy with the beltpack could be anywhere! He can’t even see as good as the engineer while shoving - let alone feel how the cut is handling. The yard sure is getting noisy with all the bangin around - and almost every day a busted coupler too boot.
But the big thing I don’t understand is why the UTU gets away with signing deals on another AFL union’s turf. How come the AFL-CIO hasn’t censured the UTU. Ain’t that how the teamsters got kicked out - for doing such “Un-brotherly” stuff!
I guess the union is out for its own self, just the same as the company is! We are the pawns!
The UTU isnt in the AFL-CIO , and after this
probably wont be let back in !
Ironicly enough I though the original idea or use of remotes where for handling special materials so that the conducor had more control, not for buildind an entire load
Icemanmike2-Milwaukee
Bruce & CO.:
For all the howling and grieving shown in the ersatz “Union Hall Meeting”, please consider that some of those bucks can actually be put into replacing those 50 year old ties and 100 year old rail in those same yards. The joke term “deferred” (as in NO) maintenance could be done away with slowly and a few of those operating supervisors can go bye-bye as well…
Yup…they’er popping up in yards everywhere…Canada use’s them alot…I’ll be skipping Amtrak or any rail travel when they put someone hundreds of mile’s away running a crew/less 100 car train!!Next they will do this with plane’s & I’ll be driving my car everywhere I travel…if I travel
It is interesting how we all resist change until it destroys what we are trying to protect. The unions fought to keep useless firemen on board locomotives and extra brakemen on the caboose until the railroads had no money to stay in business. Now the unions will fight for every advantage as the remote controlled trains take over.
As pointed out above, the savings is in your pocket. The cost of transport is in your utility bill, the cost of your shoes and the cost of everything else. If you keep the unnecessary employees, the truckers will continue their domination and the railroads will wither. If you allow the railroads to advance their technologies there will be more jobs maintaining equipment (a nice job that gets you decent working hours), building track (that makes the trains go faster and the service more attractive) and high tech jobs maintaining the computer systems.
The unions will resist and fight and once the railroad can no longer compete, everyone will lose their jobs. I hope you enjoy driving an 18 wheeler, there are still job openings there.
Noel, do you work for the rr? Have you ever paid union dues? You sure seem to know alot about the rrs.
Funny, you equate the lose of one more man out of a three man crew with profit. So now, not only do I have to line switches, read a switch list, hold a lantren, and a radio, pull pins and keep a eye out on my helper, I get to run the locomotive. What you fail to realize is that the statistics the FRA gets are provided by the railroad,(we all know how concerned about safety they are) the FRA does not go out to the field and collect its own data. Cutting payroll is any industries quickest response to a slumping botton line, its quick and easy. Make no mistake, with three men, I can flat switch 250 to 300 cars in a eight hour shift, and couple, swing and spot them all in the outbound tracks. With a remote, I will be luck to move half of that. Plus, the engineer sees things from the cab no one on the ground can, and I have had my behind saved a few times by an alert engineer.
By the way, firemen wernt “usless”, how in the world do you think engineers are trained? On a computer simulator? Lots of luck. In a three week course, kinda like drivers ed? Unless they get hands on experience, and knowledge of the terrain they run over, all the class room work you want to give them is a waste of time. And that usless rear brakeman? When was the last time you walked a 150 car train to line a switch behind, and then had to walk back to the front end? Talk about a waste of time! The railroads program to eliminate as many employees as they can will, at some point, tip them over into the same mess they were in ten years ago, tons of trains, no crews rested to run them. As for saving jobs, as far as I am concerned, the UTU is a waste of my time and money.
I get the feeling you dont railroad, except from a armchair, or in front of your computer.
Savings in my pocket, yeah, and I bet you gave your christmas bonus back to you company so they could buy more staples and printer paper!
You dont get it, do you?
If I had wanted to be a pudgey little computer geek, I would have never gone railroading.
You
it’s some strange things you say about r.r. workers, unions, and what r.rs. will do with the profit returend from rcls… fireman and brakeman are useless? why, because there is no coal to shovel into the firebox? what have you been reading? how you can ignore the safety issue of having a second pair of eyes and ears on an engineer’s blind side is truly remarkable… how would an engineer take notice of something happening when the right-of-way bends sharply to the left? that’s where the useless fire and brakemen would sit… next, you seem to imply the r.rs. would use profits from saving money with the use of rcl to improve track conditions and make more jobs available–for who, unborn babies? r.rs. wnt rcls and squeeze pennies from turnips for one reason: to make their pockets jingle… you close with a few words on unions who are putting r.rs. out-of-business… yeh, right! those poor r.rs… they have noone to speak for them, no influence with lawmakers… whew! dont that stretch the elastic on my b-v-ds! boil it all down, and you are saying, the end justifies the means… yeh, the r.rs. will have to cut a few workers off their jobs, demote some, transfer a bunch, but that’s o.k, see, 'cause, after all, the unions are out to ruin the r.rs… what crewman wouldn’t want to destroy a r.r., and his pension, after putting in 25 years, 20 of them on the x-tra board… the family surely awaits the day when the wage-earner comes home and says, guess what! the r.rs. is in bankruptcy, the pension’s gone, and whooo-eee, i’m out of work!! oh yeh, this really works!
Now that we have a serious discussion, let’s focus on some points. First, I am not a railroader, I am a teacher. My views of railroading come from discussions with railroading friends.
Next, saving dollars. A dollar saved doesn’t go into some executive’s pocket. It reduces the rate of increase of costs and is spent to make the company more efficient next year. Compare your pay stub with that 5 years ago and see how much your pay and benefits have increased. Has your employer passed all that on to the customer or have they limited cost increases by increasing efficiencies?
Finally, safety. Because of the diligent work of everyone involved in railroading your casualty rate is one tenth of that of other industries. Even though the extra set of eyes in the cab would help we all would be far safer if the extra set of eyes were on an additional train of containers taken off the road. The casualty rate of US railroads is about 1000 per year (most of these are trespassers or drivers at grade crossings). There are single states that have that casualty rate for truckers in one year. I would rather have my wife driving on a truck free icy interstate than worrying about the infrequent grade crossing. The grade crossing is clearly marked and signaled. The out of control truck just honks his horn and plows into the back of the car.
Now that we have a serious discussion, let’s focus on some points. First, I am not a railroader, I am a teacher. My views of railroading come from discussions with railroading friends.
Next, saving dollars. A dollar saved doesn’t go into some executive’s pocket. It reduces the rate of increase of costs and is spent to make the company more efficient next year. Compare your pay stub with that 5 years ago and see how much your pay and benefits have increased. Has your employer passed all that on to the customer or have they limited cost increases by increasing efficiencies?
Finally, safety. Because of the diligent work of everyone involved in railroading your casualty rate is one tenth of that of other industries. Even though the extra set of eyes in the cab would help we all would be far safer if the extra set of eyes were on an additional train of containers taken off the road. The casualty rate of US railroads is about 1000 per year (most of these are trespassers or drivers at grade crossings). There are single states that have that casualty rate for truckers in one year. I would rather have my wife driving on a truck free icy interstate than worrying about the infrequent grade crossing. The grade crossing is clearly marked and signaled. The out of control truck just honks his horn and plows into the back of the car.
Noel, exactly what do you base the premise that the railroads are saving money with the remotes? I believe you have made the simple presumption that one man gone means money saved. In the yard where I work the railroad spent millions implementing these remotes. They had to train over a hundred men at better than $2000 each, retrofit the locomotives at over $100,000 each and install radio repeaters. I am sure you will say that the savings from one less man will pay back that investment. Unfortunately you and the railroads are not taking the loss in productivity per job caused by the change. Capital investments on the railroad are huge, track and rolling stock cost a fortune. To use these investments in an inefficient manner costs money. The yard I work in publishes the statistics every month for the yard operations. These statistics include comparisons with last year (when all jobs had engineers). I have the March publication so I can compare Jan, Feb, and Mar with and without engineers. The average number of switch engines worked per month in the three month period with an engineer was 462, RCO 476. The average number of penalty lunches in that three month period with engineers was 13, RCO 57. A penalty lunch costs about $10 each. Minutes overtime per day with an engineer was 24 minutes, RCO 370 minutes. Overtime on an RCO for two men comes to about $1 an minute and with an engineer (three men) $1.50 per minute. The average cost per car switched in the yard averaged with an engineer $8.97 per car, RCO $9.85. The cost per departed car (some cars are switched more than once before departing) with an engineer $10.74, RCO $11.59. A buck a car may not sound like much, consider the yard I work in switches 50,000 cars a month. Their own figures show that they are not saving money with remote control jobs. This doesn’t include costs for trains being held out, departing late, or even bypassing the yard to be switched elsewhere and then have some of the cars sent back. How long will it take to
Ok Nole,
What do you teach?
You said a dollar saved dosnt go into an executive’s pocket but is used to reduce the rate of increase cost and is spent to make the company more efficient next year. Like Southern Pacific?
Nice textbook concept. Real life concept. Budget overun, forgot to spend the money to improve the tracks, derailed a few to many trains, solution? Lay off ten men from the extra board this month, ten more next month, and aboli***hree trains/jobs. Take money saved from the payroll, fix track. Oh, and be sure to fire the crews from the derailed trains, because we dont want the FRA to know we didnt maintain our track, so we will blame the crews, say they were speeding or something.
Saving dollars.
Compaired my last paycheck from one 5 years ago. Difference? 0. Still make $23.00 per hour. I was hired after 1985, so I dont get the perks the pre 85 guys do, who, by the way are fast leaving railroading due to natural attrition. In fact, my efficent union informed me that, with the next round of contract talks, they intend to allow the carriers to make us pay up to 2/3 of the cost of our health insurance, and we have no choice as to who or what insurance company underwrites it, the carrier does.
As for the other set of eyes being on another train, two men on a train is one too many?
If you ever get to see the paperwork required by the Federal goverment, and see the duties a conductor performs, and then try to add that to the duties a engineer has to perform before a train can even leave the terminal, your efficiencey drops to 0, because your one trainman would have to spend over a hour just checking the train before it leaves. Remember the CSX locomotive that ran away two years ago?
One man crew, engineer got off to line a switch, didnt do a complete brake reduction, tie a hand brake, open the generator switch, center the reverser. These are the FRA requirements for when a locomotive is left with no one on board. Takes about five minutes. He just applied the i
Oh, ED! How I love your commentary! You have the moxy and are articulate enough to lock horns with the teacher. As they say… those who can do…those who can’t; teach. For Noel: “I don’t RR, but I talk to friends that do.” Sorry, bud. That don’t cut it. I am remote qualified. I operate one every day. I was on the verge of getting forced to the job, so I bit the bullet. Now, compared to you who read about it and have discussions on the topic, that would make me the expert here. You wouldn’t know a frog from a wet fart! I work around new TMs all day that are college grads with econ. degrees among others. Guess what, it don’t work! Your textbook *** doesn’t fly on the RR. Case in point…BNSF is one of the worst managed companies in the US. Guess who is running the show…up high and down low. Yep, non RRing college grads.