There was some discussion of this in the recent coupler thread starting with a post by Paul North on page 4, but that thread includes a lot of other things, so I want to focus on this particular FRA development of a system to remotely couple and uncouple freight cars:
This also relates to the current discussion on PTC and the apparent belief that safety improvements are worthwhile, no matter what the cost.
Basically this is a proposal for an automatic air and electrical coupler that is added to the Type-F automatic coupler. The electrical coupler is for the control line for ECP brakes. This combination of the car coupler with an air coupler and electrical coupler is referred to as the “Tri-coupler.”
Also included in this proposal are a remote-controlled anglecock, and remote-controlled cut-lever. As Paul mentioned in the other thread, it would seem that a remote-controlled handbrake would also be essential to achieve the goal of this proposal, however the FRA p
Actually, unless you’re working with all cars that have had the air bled off, you do have to go in between, but not while you’re actually making the cut. Prior to lifting the cut lever, you have to close the anglecock on the car that’s staying connected to the locomotive.
Sounds rather like they merged the two functions. Or, it could be that the passage was written by someone who’s never actually laid hands on a cut lever or anglecock…
Bucyrus, thanks for starting this thread. I’ll post a link back to the last one - which I ‘re-started’ because of the article on these in this months - June 2010 - Trains, on pp. 14 - 15 - because the discussion there on these points was too good to lose IMHO - including some by Bucyrus who is too modest to say so here - even though it started out with a question about transit car couplers.
EDIT: Just to keep track, it seems to me that there are a minimum of 4 - maybe 5 functions - involved here with connecting and disconnecting a freight railcar: 1
The dream of an automatic air coupler has been around since airbrakes were invented. There are many patents on such a device that date from around 1900. Most of them would work with a little further development. One of them is practically identical to the air coupler on the FRA Tri-coupler. And while an automatic air coupler would save labor, the greater motivator has been the elimination of the need to go between cars.
It is true that the anglecock also requires a trainman to go between cars, but this is less frequent than the hose coupling operation. Interestingly, one patent for an automatic air coupling includes a feature to automate the anglecock. Specifically, it has a valve in the air coupler that closes off the connection when the couplers separate. Of course, this feature is not viable because it would interfere with the proper operation of the automatic air brakes such as in cases where the pulling coupler breaks and the parting hoses dump the air and set the brakes.
I was once so inspired by the need for an automatic railroad air coupler that I designed and built a prototype. However, eventually I lost interest.
Rweally good topic for discussion! Thanks to Paul and Bucyrus. [tup][tup]
Given the the number of injuries per year that would seem to happen in, and around the switching operations. Surely the automatic ( Or air-electrically enhanced coupler) coupler would be an injury preventer.
The questions I have is how are these couplers to be activated? Radio signals would seem to be somewhat problematic in the railroad environment. Would the activation be somehow locked til activated by an authorized employee ( something on the side of the car with a device like a switch key lock?)
That seems to be sort of self defeating. Would there be some kind of an audible warning , to alert possibly a trespasser, or another employee not involved in the switching process?
I’d really like one of the Forum members who works with switching cars on a regular basis to post their thoughts on this whole proposed process. THANKS!
How do you guys come to the conclusion that your going to be killed or hurt
coupling cars together , In the years ive coupled cars i never stood between cars to couple them always to the side and ive got all my body parts still.
how am i going to get run over turning a anglecock, all the is required is reachin with 1 arm and turn the angle cock. real simple. not any possibility of getting run over.
getting run over making a cut is about as hard to get run over as turning a angle cock even less you dont haft to reach as far. mostly stand at side of car and raise leaver simple, unless your by a bees nest then it might get worse.
a little harder problem it requires a maximum of 1 leg to get in the way or in the danger zone. step in with 1 leg grab hose ends and lace them up then step out. this is generally done after all movements have stopped. if tain would start moveing you can jump out quickly and not lose a leg very easy to do.
I can see no reason for the remote do-dads that you guys are so vivid to push onto the system the big and presant danger you try to impose here is a fantisy if you dont put yourself into harms way you wont get hurt, and trust me no matter what you do on the railroad as long as your not in the gauge your not going to lose any body part.
If you ask Ed he will tell you yes this job is dangerouse but as long as your not stupid your not going to get hurt, make sure your movement is stopped make sure you put nothing in the gage and dont be there when things start moving and you wont get hurt…
This is an answer to a problem that does not exist.
Just another way for people in the tech business to justify their jobs by adding even more circuit boards and computer programming to something that works just fine without it. This whole study appears to be pork to the companies involved.
As Wabash points out, coupling airhoses and lifting cut levers is not the way people out here get hurt. How about climbing on cars to take brakes on and off, or throwing ill-maintained switches? How about addressing the lack of walking conditions? Why don’t we stop peeing around the fire and address real schedules so crews are not working on 30 hours of red bull and Mt Dew in lieu of sleep? How about we end the harassment from “bosses” that hide in the weeds like some sort of a peeping tom/birdwatching hybrid? Harrassment leads to loss of focus, and loss of focus is what causes injury and death. Not turning an angle kahk.
They act like a tried and proven method is cause for change. I argue the exact opposite. It only became tried and true because it WORKS. Good luck getting any cooperation from the major lease outfits that operate thousands of railcars. In their study it may have been durable. But let’s give this a few years in the dust, dirt, grime and ballast dust of a real RR. Let’s see how these circuit boards manage being dropped, crashed, banged, miscoupled, misaligned, drug, slack action, and all other forms of torture we hand out on a daily basis. This isn’t like a subway car that gets normal shop time. Railcars usually only get any real attention when something breaks.
Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. But I wish they would stop pretending like there is something wrong with the current way. Their linked promotion article was laughab
I don’t know how others here feel about it, but I am certainly not pushing all the new safety do-dads. The FRA seems to pushing them, but I think they are misguided in that quest. They seem to be reflecting the extreme risk-aversion and victimization trend that is emerging in our society.
The RFA says, “A need exists to minimize the risk by physically getting the operator away from coupling operations.”
I would agree that a need exists to minimize risk, but I think that need has been met. Pushing it to the point of getting the operator away from coupling op
What about the anglecock on the other car that’s on the far side of the draft gear, and down a little bit ? Looking at some nearby covered hoppers over lunchtime, it seemed pretty hard to get to that one without either stepping into the gage and leaning over the mated couplers, or crawling under them, or getting up on the car to cross over and then down, all of which have some greater risk of injury ? What I did realize is that for an engineer and trainman on the right = normal engineer’s side of the train, the cut lever and anglecock for the trailing end of a car are the ones that are the closest to the trainman; but it’s the ones on the other car that are on the far side. But what you said in 4) about not going into the gage until the movement has stopped, and being able to jump out quickly if something does move - slack relax out, etc. - also applies here.
What about the anglecock on the other car that’s on the far side of the draft gear, and down a little bit ? Looking at some nearby covered hoppers over lunchtime, it seemed pretty hard to get to that one without either stepping into the gage and leaning over the mated couplers, or crawling under them, or getting up on the car to cross over and then down, all of which have some greater risk of injury ? What I did realize is that for an engineer and trainman on the right = normal engineer’s side of the train, the cut lever and anglecock for the trailing end of a car are the ones that are the closest to the trainman; but it’s the ones on the other car that are on the far side. But what you said in 4) about not going into the gage until the movement has stopped, and being able to jump out quickly if something does move - slack relax out, etc. - also applies here.
This is a recent photo that I was looking for - from the side, of 2 shelf-type couplers on a train in motion near sunset. As the caption notes, they’re in ‘draft’ / tension - the gaps between the tops evidence that - the motion of which is what Bucyrus discussed in one of his posts on the other Couplers thread as being a technical challenge to overcome:
Even with all this electrical computerized gear, you will still need to adjust drawbars. So now how will that work with this? Seems like a lot more weight to move around.
Somewhere I read that to open the knuckle, the FRA remote-controlled pin lifter will cause the knuckle-thrower to open the knuckle. But they will still have to develop a remote-controlled coupler aligner. It will get feedback from the track geometry to adjust the coupler alignment for straight track or for curves. Once we get the personnel “away from coupling operations,” we are also going to need some kind of remote camera and feedback system to guide the engineer as he slows down to make the joint.
I can’t imagine coupling the air hoses with a stick of some sort. To couple the hoses, you have to grab the one nearest you, and bend it upward, approaching 180 degrees, by kinking it at its midpoint. Then you grab the far hose and place its glad-hand against the glad-hand of the kinked hose nearest you. Then you let the bent hose go and as it un-bends, dropping down, the two glad-hands swivel together, mating in the process.
Pictures of the ‘device’ prove that Rube Goldberg is alive and well and trying to design safety items for the FRA, without regard for maintenance costs.
The method of automatic air coupling with the Tri-coupler is identical to what I prototyped, except I made my prototype for the type E couplers and mounted it under the coupler rather than on top, as is the case with the Tri-coupler. Because the type E couplers are not vertically self-aligning like the type F couplers, my design needed to have a much larger diameter gathering cone. I had a cone that was about 8” diameter, whereas it looks like the tri-coupler design uses a cone only about 2-3” diameter.
I also needed spring loaded pivots in two planes to accommodate the relative motion between the type E couplers, whereas the tri-coupler apparently can accommodate the relative motion of the type F couplers with only the slop in the telescoping mechanism of its sealing springs.
I developed my prototype with a pneumatic sealing system that would only force the face seals together when the trainline was pressurized. However, this approach created a problem that may or may not have been practical.
Paul the 2nd day of conductor school they learn to look at the car they are coupling to. is the knuckle open is the anglecock open if not stop movement 1 car from coupling and open them. and even if your half asleep you would know its open anyways because
the train that set out that car didnt close it they seperated and left now here you come to couple up to it. and guess what it is still open. no need to reach across.
there is only 1 need to get in the gage with 1 leg and thats to lace the hoses, remeber to keep it simple.
The idea of crawling through reaching over and soforth is absolutly against the rules. this frantic what if this stuff is a nice try of fixing something that is not broke, not even skinned.