I recently purchased an old AHM/Rivarossi Big Boy. It had sat on a shelf for several years, so the first thing I did was clean and lube it. It ran, but the square 3 pole motor was quite noisy and rough, so I decided to remotor the locomotive.
I found this thread (http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/193714/2115155.aspx) and also another on a different forum, so went ahead and cut the frame down, modified the drive shaft, and installed a Canon DN22 motor I found on eBay. The motor is quiet, the locomotive runs smooth, but it’s very s-l- o-w. I had looked at this spec sheet from Canon, so I thought it would be ok, but I suspect the motor I got is a 24v motor, not a 12v motor, as it seems to be running at about half speed with the throttle all the way up.
I’m trying to pick a better motor (without going broke), so I’m looking at a Canon EN22 and a Mabuchi FK-280. Any advice? Also do these locos pull very well with a new motor?
Just for fun (mine), how about doing an official speed test on the loco.
I have a nice articulated that looks like it’s going pretty slow at top speed. I clocked it, though, at 55 MPH. Which I am told really was the all-out top speed this guy ever attained.
Don’t know how official it is, but I ran it at full speed just now, and used a couple of different calculators…came out at 38 MPH. My layout has no grades, either.
I was running it on my friend’s layout last night, which does have some grades, and it nearly stalled a few times even without pulling any cars. So I think I need a motor with more wheaties and more weight on the drivers if this loco is going to be anything but a display piece.
The Canon EN-22 is a 5400 RPM motor at full rated voltage under load. If yours is a 24 volt version it would be slow running. I have used the 12 volt version in many (12) Rivarossi articulated locomotive and they perform perfect. The Canon EN-22 is a great HO motor replacement. You can also use a Faulhaber 2224SR-12 Volt (7800 RPM no load) 4230 RPM 12 volts 520ma at full load.
The Faulhaber is a bit larger but very powerful, the Faulhaber motor has Neodymium magnets and draws very little current. The magnetic flux of a Neodymium magnet is about 4X an Alnico magnet. More power less current.
Motorman sells all kinds of motors on eBay: Microlocomotion
Interesting. My Rivarossi Big Boy is in the box but disassembled for this very project. Never got the EN-22 ordered but was definitely going the remotor route with it.
Do you have any pictures of your conversion to share? Looks like you were taking the same route with yours that I found.
Opinions on the Kato HM-5 motor to use in the boiler? I think Kato has their quality together a lot better than a good chunk of other manufacturers.
I found some instructions on steamlocomotive.com that described cutting off the motor mount “forks” on the frame. I did that, and built up the floor of the cab with some styrene so I had a platform for the motor. I trimmed the drive shaft, drilled a 2mm hole, and friction fit the motor shaft, then glued the motor down with bathtub caulk. I had to trim the sides of the cab and the internal bulkhead to fit around the motor, and you have to make sure the mounting screw near the cab is clear.
I noticed on the micorlocomtion ebay site Mel linked to is a motor listed as “ideal 4 Rivvy Steam”; it may be possible to replace the old motor without any surgery:
If you want to go whole hog check out my Rivarossi Cab Forward remotor job. I picked it up off eBay with a cracked chassis for about $40.
As everyone is aware parts for older Rivarossi are long gone so with a broken frame it was a real project. As long as I had to build up a new frame I decided to install a pair of EN-22 motors.
This is a link to my dual Canon EN-22 motor install in a Rivarossi Cab Forward. Great power and low current, both Canon motors with locked rotor draw less than one amp, 860ma. A single decoder drives both motors easily.
I’ve used these before with great results, and they’re actually the same motors used in some modern Rivarossi steam engines. I’ve also seen them in BLI.
Interesting. My Rivarossi Big Boy is in the box but disassembled for this very project. Never got the EN-22 ordered but was definitely going the remotor route with it.
Do you have any pictures of your conversion to share? Looks like you were taking the same route with yours that I found.
Opinions on the Kato HM-5 motor to use in the boiler? I think Kato has their quality together a lot better than a good chunk of other manufacturers.
I didn’t think to snap any photos when I was doing the work; I regret that now.
I found some instructions on steamlocomotive.com that described cutting off the motor mount “forks” on the frame. I did that, and built up the floor of the cab with some styrene so I had a platform for the motor. I trimmed the drive shaft, drilled a 2mm hole, and friction fit the motor shaft, then glued the motor down with bathtub caulk. I had to trim the sides of the cab and the internal bulkhead to fit around the motor, and you have to make sure the mounting screw near the cab is clear.
I noticed on the micorlocomtion ebay site Mel linked to is a motor listed as “ideal 4 Rivvy Steam”; it may be possible to replace the old motor without any surgery:
I used a dremel on low speed. It was a little melty, so I cleaned it up with a file.
I’m traveling now, but I’ll post some pictures when I get home. I took some pictures the other day–I took out my DN22 and replaced it with an EN22. In another thread, I posted the ohms and voltages of the motors. The DN22 was 60 ohms and the EN22 9; the motors started at 3.4 v and .5 v, respectively. Now it runs really well, maybe too fast. It had no problems with grades and could pull 15 cars no problem.
I fugured you used a dremmel, but I was wanting to make sure. Another question, is the EN-22 better than the DN-22. I’ve heard lots about the two but mostly the DN-22 being just a hair less on torque. I have no idea about electrical measurements so I wouldnt be able to measure them myself. I still havent installed the DN-22 yet so I could make the change if the EN-22 is the better option.
You are correct about the DN22 having slightly less torque than a EN22 providing both are 12 volt with a 10 ohm winding. If either have a 50 ohm or more winding it is a 24 volt motor and will not work.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
So…other than the slightly less torque, the motors are the same? I’m jist assuming. If the EN-22 is better, the only ones I can find have worm gears on them. Is there some where I could ge them without the worm gear? If not, how do I remove the worm gear?
You are correct about the DN22 having slightly less torque than a EN22 providing both are 12 volt with a 10 ohm winding. If either have a 50 ohm or more winding it is a 24 volt motor and will not work.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
So…other than the slightly less torque, the motors are the same? I’m jist assuming. If the EN-22 is better, the only ones I can find have worm gears on them. Is there some where I could
There is only a small difference in torque between the DN22(M) and the EN22, they are very close.
Here are the PDFs on both motors. Pay attention to the voltage (12V) on the left and compare the various ratings, winding resistance and Constance Torque.
The gear will come off using a wheel puller or you can forces it off by gently using a couple of pairs of needle noise pliers as wedges between the gear and motor bearing.
You are correct about the DN22 having slightly less torque than a EN22 providing both are 12 volt with a 10 ohm winding. If either have a 50 ohm or more winding it is a 24 volt motor and will not work.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951