I have a couple 18” radius districts on the layout minimum radius for HO Scale which seems too tight for my Mantua 2-8-0 Consolidation that has all drivers flanged I have already removed flanges on one set of wheels in an attempt to fix this I’m close but still jump the track… is it unusual to see four drivers de-flanged??? I also have Mantua 0-6-0 switcher from factory came with center drivers de-flanged so I presume is common practice… Can anyone give insight to this or has experience in this situation, any input would be helpful…
First, 18 inch radius is a bit tight for a locomotive with 8 drivers, but if it’s laid perfectly, and you run slowly through that area, it may work.
Second, I’ll ask if the drivers are what is derailling, or is it the pilot truck? Or the tender?
Look critically at the track in the area you’re having the problem. Lay a straight edge (use a thin cardboard piece that you can bend that has a straight edge) on top of each rail through this area. Look for humps or gullies. Check each rail joint. Are they kinked or is there a gap on one rail but not the other? Did you use sectional track or flex track? If flex, how did you determine the 18 inch radius?
And, yes it is somewhat unusual for two sets of drivers to be flangeless, but it has been done. This Mikado is a light model used by Canadian Forest Products until the early 90’s, but only for excursion service. It had been used on the logging rails some years before that.
-Crandell
Well… the Pennsy left the middle drivers blind on the M1 and M1a.
My Bachman 2-8-0 and BLI 2-8-2 ran on my old 18 radius oval no problem
Be careful about removing flanges. I had a PRR 4-8-2 whose flangeless drivers fell off the inside of curves as wide as 30". I tried limiting the lateral movement of the blind drivers, but even that didn’t work. So before you remove the flanges from the other set of drivers, look carefully and see whether the already blind drivers are near falling off the rails. If so, you might need a plan B. In my case the offending engine became a display piece because it just couldn’t make it around my layout.
That’s unfortunate. I have only two engines with blind drivers, the PRR J1 and the same company’s Duplex. In both cases, even on what John Armstrong termed ‘broad curves’ (my main curves are in excess of 30", with several in excess of 45"), those blind drivers come off the rails fully. It doesn’t affect their performance. In fact, my Duplex, the first Paragon version, is a mighty puller, even though only two driving axles stay on the rails! [:O]
-Crandell
Well, judging by the question, his isn’t. That’s why the third paragraph advises him to look critically at his track.
I doubt if my track would have been considered laid perfectly and I didn’t creep around the turns
So how does this answer the original poster’s question?
And BLI also has their Blueline M1a’s with blind middle drivers and they handle 18 inch.
Most HO will do an 18" radius but it has to be perfect in all respects. Turnout transitions, elevations, rail joints and the radius. I cut a template out of hard cardboard or Masonite to check the the radius. I’ve started using a small block of metal to slide back and forth across rail joints to check rail height. (My bifocals can fool me sometimes). [:-^] Use a small level, straight edge or anything to get the track level.
Good luck
Lee
Please consider the information in this thread, now featured on page one of the Layouts and Layout Building forum next door. Note my diagram in my second post on the second page.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/171336.aspx
-Crandell
Two items to mention:
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Note the photo of the blind-drivered 2-8-2 that Crandell posted. The blind drivers are wider than the ones with flanges (more overhang over the outside of the railhead on tangent track) and have cylindrical, rather than conical, profiles.
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If one axle of a 2-8-0 has blind drivers it should be the second axle, with an equal number of flanged axles fore and aft. JNR built the E10 class 2-10-4T (AFAIK the only JNR loco built with blind drivers) with the third and fourth driver axles blind, leaving three flanged axles at each end of the locomotive.
When blind drivers were in common use, it was not uncommon for extremely sharp curves to have a second, full-height, rail at flange-width spacing inside the outer rail of the curves, to carry the blind drivers that would otherwise have dropped off the inside of the running rail. This was NOT a guard rail, since it offered no extra lateral strength. (Installing guard rails against the INSIDE rail of a sharp curve is a normal practice in Japan, especially on private electric railways laid with small-section rail.)
At the moment, the only loco I own with blind drivers is a 2-6-6-2T that started life as a Mantua ‘logger.’ Like its Uintah prototype, it came that way from the builder. I prefer to embargo certain locomotives from sharply-curved track rather than remove their flanges.
Chuck (Modleing Central Japan in September, 1964)
Log hallin. [#welcome]
I have ran Big Steam and Diesels around 18 inch turns and as stated you need to watch imperfections closely. Steam engines do not like a lot of things, dips, high spots, rails heights that do not match and turnouts.
Other thing I learned is where the Engine / Car derails may not be the problem spot! In one of my cases the bad spot was 10 feet from where the derailment happened.
First thing I would do is make sure all the wheels are in gauge.
Second is watch the Engine closely and see if a wheel is coming off the rails before it derails.
I might have missed it, but is it the drive wheels coming of the track or is it the the front truck or tender?
I think (have to look) my BLI M1 A has two sets of blinder drive wheels
Good luck and post often!
Cuda Ken