Hi,
First time poster here.
Can anybody tell me about reversing loops on prototype rr’s? Are there good examples? Why were they used rather than turntables? I have only one example, which is at Taconite Harbor, MN.
I want to use a reversing loop on my first layout, but I also want it to make “sense” operationally (as opposed to just being good to make the trains run around interestingly)
Rhody
While space-eating, visible reverse loops are handy and prototypical. The one at Truckee, CA (I don’t know if the loop is still there) is another example. With loops one could (1) turn an entire train around with little effort (especially useful with one-direction-oriented passenger cars such as combines and observation cars), (2) turn a locomotive (or locomotive set) of any practical length, and (3) reverse the direction of snow-clearing equipment without going backwards or digging out a snow-filled turntable pit.
Mark
Just a guess (don’t ya just love people who really don’t answer your question!) but I would think that wyes would be a lot more plentiful than loops. You could build them to handle several cars and still take up less space than a loop. On a model RR, loops could be easier.
I know on the Grand Canyon RR they turn the entire train on a wye at the Canyon depot. At the Williams end I’m not sure what they do.
Rhody;
Many WP division point yards had reversing loop in addition to a roundhouse and turntable. At Oakland, CA the reversing loop circled the roundhouse and was used to turn the California Zephyr. It was split in half, pushed around the reverse loop through the car washer and into the coach yard. At least once a day all the TOFC cars that needed reversing for unloading ramps, during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, were turned on the reversing loop.
The revese loop at Truckee and several other locations on Donner Pass were used to turn snowplow trains.
On my HO and now 1:29 railroad I’ve used multi-track nested reverse loops, presently 3 tracks, for division point yards. They use half the linear space and make an impressive yard throat. An arriving train is turned and staged as a new departing train in the opposite direction.
Hope this is food of thought.
Rob
Grand Central Terminal, in New York, had (and still has, I believe) a reverse loop that completely encircles the platform tracks.
Most of the current crop of high-capacity coal mines load unit trains as they circle under the flood loader on a reverse loop. The destinations for those unit trains also have reverse loops.
As mentioned, there are reverse loops in snow country so the plow doesn’t have to back up.
There is actually a loop-back connection at Gallitzin, PA, so that helpers on the grade that includes the Horseshoe Curve can return downgrade cab-end first. Originally built for steam, it remains in place (and in use) in the 21st century.
In short, when the situation calls for one, the prototype doesn’t hesitate to build a reverse loop.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The end of CN’s Okanagan Sub in Kelowna, BC has a large loop. I’ll see if I can dig up a track diagram.
Crestline had a loop behind the round house built just for turning the S1. They also turned the T1 and Q2 there also. Most of the loops I know of had spring switches so there was no need of a brakeman to switch the loop. With a wye you would need three or more switches.
Pete
A reverse loop is MUCH less expensive to build and maintain than a turntable, and a turntable is much more limited in the length that it can turn. The reason that loops were so popular in snow country, is that the entire plow train could be turned while clearing it’s own path, if turned on a wye, it would be likely to derail backing into the snow fiiled legs of a wye.
Ah how quickly people forgetwhat was once fairly common. The IC had one and they called it a balloon track. It was about two to three miles south of dontown and allowed them to turn entire passenger trains for the trip southbound. I suspect they were failrr common where there were stub end stations in major cities. They didnt take up nearly as much space as a wye with a sufficient tail to turn entire trains.
The South end of the New York & Long Branch at (IIRC) Bay Head NJ Had a loop to turn PRR and CNJ passenger trains. Don’t know if it’s still there, but it was used at least into the 1970’s.
Also a couple freight examples:
Trackage in the ICI Plant at Atlas Point in DE formed a loop.
Maryland Port Authority’s Dundalk Marine Terminal had both a loop and a wye. IIRC the wye track connected with the reversing loop to make a “continuous running loop”, which is supposed to be unprotypical.
Just pulled it up on Mapquest - nice track arrangement. It even shows up on the street map as well as the satellite photos.
If it wasn’t in use today, I’m sure the area would have been prime development real estate. The area inside the loop is wooded, no roads. It’s surrounded by wall to wall suburban sprawl.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The radius of the Truckee, CA balloon track was a bit more than about 400 feet. That is about 4’7" (55") in HO scale.
Mark
The loop you mention in MN is the Erie Mining Co’s old line, I got to ride on that a few years ago. EMCO ore cars were set up to be dumped while rolling, with the ore dock being double-ended and running parallel to the shoreline (rather than the normal stub-end four track ore dock). Trains could come into the loop and out onto the dock, slowly dump their loads, and continue around the loop back the way they came.
Also many new taconite plants were set up to allow for “balloon track” loading, as were some of the newer western coal loading facilities, like in the Powder River basin.
I just remembered the PRSL had one at the south end of Wil;dwood Crest New Jersey in Cold Springs Harbor where they stored trains for the return to Philadelphia and the largest passenger yard ever in the country and still is at Sunnyside New York has one for turning the trains
The former Broad Street Station in Richmond, Virginia had a reversing loop for turning passenger trains as they came into the station so they could exit head first without requiring the locos or individual cars to be turned.
There is a diagram of the station and the reversing loop in Track Planning for Realistic Operation, if you’re curious.
I am grateful to all of you for your responses. Reversing loops appear to be pretty wide-spread!
I’ve realized I have a follow-up question. The reversing loops discussed appear mostly to involve turning a train around at the end of the line. In the layout I’m designing (and I suspect many model RR’s), I have a reversing loop that is, in theory, on a much larger scale. A train goes from town A to town B. Then it goes to point C, loops around and rejoins the A-B segment, traveling in the opposite direction.
Is there a prototype for this longer loop?
I can give you one.
Here in Northern Nevada we had two transcontinental rail lines, the SP and the WP. Between Winnemucca and Wells they had an operating agreement that WP tracks would handle one direction for both railroads (East) and the SP tracks handled West. In other words, double track. However, there are places that the tracks are actually a considerable distance apart, such as Valmy.
Now, a coal fired power plant was built at Valmy (near Battle Mountain). Coal trains come from the east on the SP, drop their coal, and went back east on the WP.
If we look at this, the towns would be Carlin, Battle Mountain, Carlin, as the WP tracks do not actually go through Battle Mountain itself. If the train “originated” in Elko, then it would be Elko, Carlin, Battle Mountain, Carlin, Elko.
This gives you the effect of a loop without actually physically being a a loop
Jack W
At one time the Milwaukee Road had reverse loops in Beaver Dam and Fox Lake, Wisconsin. The railroad had two passenger depots in Beaver Dam, one on the north side of town and one on a branch that ran downtown and formed a loop. The latter depot was a rather nice brick building that I believe survives as the Chamber of Commerce offices. The loop permitted the passenger trains to travel into the center of town and return back to a wye at the main line and then continue in the direction they were originally heading.
There were also a number of local industries along the branch, including a stove manufacturer, a foundry, a grain dealer and a cheese (Philadelphia Creamed Cheese, to be exact) factory. It existed into the Wisconsin and Southern era at least into the late 80’s and parts may still be there. As to the Fox Lake loop, I never investigated it but it was being used to store cars the last I knew, which is some twenty years ago.
John Timm
JackW,
That’s a great one, thanks. The “loop” is over 75 miles long! The interesting thing is that it occurs because of the confluence of two roads. On my own layout, I’m trying to explain the loop in sort of the same way. I find it hard to see why one road would create a long loop (but am still looking for examples!) but can see more easily how a meeting of two would produce it.
What’s especially interesting in your example is that the two roads actually cross over one another at some point.
John T.
Thanks. The Beaver Dam loop shows up in Google Earth, though the Fox Lake one doesn’t. In both cases, the satellite resolution is too low to see what’s going on, but your description is excellent.
I grew up in Wisconsin. (Less than a mile from Kalmbach’s current location near Goerke’s Corners) I was going to model the northern Wisconsin (Vilas County)/ Upper Peninsula area, but it’s hard to find the goods here so I’m thinking about doing New England.
I find it funny that Philly Cream Cheese was made in Wisconsin.