Hello! I’m brand new in the modernization section of model railroading, but I have a particular intrest in remotoring some old locomotives. I have two Rivarossi’s, one being a 1966 S-1 2-10-2 Oil burner, and the other being a 1972 4-6-4 streamlined hudson. The Hudson is not wired but the motor will run (funky as it may be) and the S-1’s motor is shorting out. I have double and triple checked all of the wiring in the locomotive to make sure there are no loose wires or that they are soldered in the wrong place. My belief is that the motor locks up and causes direct electrical flow between positive and negative rails. I’m also wanting to remotor the S-1 because the old ‘can’ motor pushes on the boiler cover and leaves a gap between the parts. Any advice would be helpful as well as recomendations for motors and modifications.
Northwest Short Line (NWSL) used to have a large amount of Sagami motors and gears, etc that were very helpful to projects like yours. Some of this stock is still out in bins and shelves. One problem with giving advice on any Rivarossi products is that they went through multiple revisions of each model without changing the pacakging, etc. So a lot of this work will be seeing what fits your model
I have remotored a couple dozen Rivarossi locomotives an I will offer an easy solution. I have the original Rivarossi motors if you would like to replace the motors with a used Rivarossi motor. Supper cheap $0.
If you do not want to go the used motor route the best replacement motors that worked out the best for me are the Canon EN22 12 volt and the Faulhaber 2224SR 12 volt. The Canon is a bit longer than the Rivarossi and the Faulhaber is just slightly larger than the originals.
I don’t have a Faulhaber handy to compare sizes. Motorman has a vary nice eBay site and he sells several different motors manufacturers versions of high quality motors that will work for remotoring.
Mel I have that same engine mine has coal tender instead It was run for maybe an hour and poof went the motor It’s the same as the ones in your pic on the left So motorman has a dn26 26 mm by 24mm that looks like a good fit. You’ve done a few of these so what do you think? thanks mike
My first preference would not be a EN26! It is gutless compared to the EN22. If you can get by will less power the EN26 is a good running motor. I think that the Rivarossi motors have more power than a EN/DN26.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
I eroded! The motors I have are the DN26-T41N1B/CN26-04401.
According to the Canon specs both the EN22 and the DN26 have 16.9 mN M/A Torque. The rated RPM under load is 5400 for the EN22 and 5000 for the DN26, per the Canon site.
After contributing to this post I got kinda caught up in the DN26 motor info. I decided to really dig into the info available online. After reading the Canon PDF Specifications on their Iron Core Motors I have decided that the DN26-T41N1B advertised all over the Internet is erroneous.
Every motor I’ve seen advertised lists the DN26-T41N1b as a 12 volt motor. After doing measurements on several motors with my Fluke 179 I have determined that per Canon Specs it is a 24 volt motor with a winding of 51.1Ω. The 12 volt DN26 winding should measure in the vicinity of 13Ω.
I have purchased the DN26-T41N1B motors from two different venders and both batches measure 50 Ω.
The 24 volt DN26 is worthless operating at 12 volts. According to the Canon Specs the 12 volt DN26 should be equal to the 12 volt EN22-R11N1B motor and it has a 9.8Ω winding. I have over 20 of the 12 volt EN22 motors that work great in my locomotives.
Thanks for the Information! I will see if I can find an EN-22 motor. I know the DN-22 is pretty common around here but it has a much higher RPM than the EN-22. According to a few sites i’ve seen the square Riv motors hover at around 8000RPM running speed. I have no idea about the can motors but I will look into it. If I do get an EN-22, I assume I would need modifications to the locomotive to fit the motor? If so, I would need some advice on that too. Not very experienced in remotoring locomotives. I’ve done a few but they were with replacement factory motors. Thanks for the Info!
According to their website, the DN-26 Series Type L Long Power, has the highest RPM rate of the DN-26 series, though it tops at 5400 RPM. I’ve also never heard of an EN-26 motor. I guess it could exist but the Canon website does not mention it.
You are probably correct. I emailed a couple of sites and ask them to measure the windings with an ohmmeter and I didn’t get a response from one site and the other said it couldn’t be done.
I guess the bottom line is gambling expecting the worst for a cheapie or go with the higher priced known correct motors. I’ve got a box full of 24 volt DN26 motors.
Edit:
One of my best finds on eBay was EN22 motors about 8 years ago, $1.98 each with $3 shipping from the States, I bought 20, should have bought 40. All 20 worked great!
Mel I don’t know what the difference is in the EN22 and DN26 motors canon lists both 12/24 volts but there must be something if your EN22 work and the DN26 don’t and I contacted motorman and he recomended the Faulhaber 2224sr but if you look at his listing he’s selling the 2224U024sr model which is a 24 volt one the 2224U012sr is 12 volts so now I’m totally confused some of these 24volt motors work fine and others are junk I think just put this engine back on the rip track
I bought a half dozen Faulhaber 12 volt 2224RS motors from Motorman about five years ago and all perform perfect, a bit more powerful than the Canon EN22 at less current. I would use them for all of my remotors except for the higher cost (X2). I bought them in bulk and he knocked off $10 per motor.
The Faulhaber has ball bearings and the Canon has bronze bushings. The Canon has more start torque but the Faulhaber runs smoother at a creep. Both have at least twice the power of the original Rivarossi motors at a fraction of the current. A power/current advantage of at least X4 over the original Rivarossi motor.
I didn’t mention that I found a use for a DN26, they work great as an Encoder or generator to drive a volt meter as an accurate RPM meter. I use a NWSL Universal to check the RPM of my motors. I did have to borrow a RPM meter to calibrate my homebrew meter.
Eldon (Motorman) is very knowledgeable, ask him for a 12 volt Faulhaber 2224RS and you will be in business.
I tried a DN22 I found on eBay; my Big Boy runs very slow. I ohmed out the windings and it came out around 60 ohms; the motor starts moving around 3.4 vdc.
I found these EN22 (5 pole version of the motor; DN22 is 3 pole), and they ohm out at about 9 ohms and the motor starts moving at about .5 vdc. I’m going to try it in my Big Boy.
I have recently purchased a DN-22 for my big boy as well. the motor isnt installed yet but testing the drive gear on an open stand allowed me to veiw the performance. For me the DN-22 appeared to run great and was much better than the old square motor. If your having trouble running the DN-22, try examining the gear boxes. I know for my locomotive that the old grease caused the gears to lock up and run poorly. After the gears were cleaned and re-greased, they rain just fine. I have no idea the condition of your big boy but its worth a shot.
I ordered a few of the EN22 motors so will see if they will work It sounds like they will be fine from what mel says . Was looking thru some boxes and found some new still in package kato HM-5 motors might try one of these have 8 of them so time for them to go to work
