What is the derivation of the term? I’ve always kind of thought that it’s a bit of a clunky-sounding title.
Like, compared to what? Is there any OTHER foreman of engines. Why isn’t the RFE known simply as the Engine Foreman?
I’ve heard RFEs referred to as traveling engineers. Is the RFE almost always in the move, or is a significant part of his work a desk job?
Ive always been fascinated/intrigued by this position, but don’t know much about it. Are there any current or former FREs here that could tell me what all the job entails.
Do almost all engineers aspire to be an RFE?
Back when I worked at the GARR, I only met the RFE once. I was expecting maybe a clean-cut guy in a suit. Instead he was this almost mythical looking character in a black biker’s jacket and black leather captain’s sort of hat. He looked like a grizzled Harley guy. He seemed kind of eccentric. But he seemed to be revered by all. People talked in hushed tones around him, and he exuded confidence and experience. I’ll never forget that guy. A real character. I think he had an odd voice, and a permanent squint. Funny how certain images remain so vivid, in this case after 50 years. I don’t think he was management; I think he was a member of the BLE.
There are ‘shop foremen of engines’, ie the Foremen of the locomotive shop, be that steam or diesel and they supervise all the personnel in the shop.
Road Foreman of Engines is a non-contract supervisory position. There is a bunch of traveling over the RFE’s assigned territory, doing check rides with each of the engineers they are supervising - I believe the FRA requires a yearly check ride with each engineer for them to keep their Engineer’s Certificate in good standing. They are first level supervision for the Engineers.
Some individuals love the RFE job, others once the perform the duties for a while decide they would rather be operating an engine again.
An Engine Foreman is/was the title for a yard switch engine conductor. Like everything else, it could be railroad or era specific. Our yard jobs now just have a foreman and maybe a switchman/helper.
A Road Foreman of Engines (some used Equipment instead) and a Travelling Engineer were the same. The title used depended on the railroad. UP now calls them Manager of Operating Practices. They are, as pointed out earlier, management that supervises engineers in various ways.
They are the ones who help develop instructions on how to run these big trains the railroads like so well, even though they’ve never run one except on a simulator.
On CSX, at least before I retired, the ‘Manager of Operating Practices’ was the individual who was the ‘rules expert’ on the operating Division to which they were assigned and were also a member of the System Rules Committee - that was charged with the responsibility of keeping the Operating Rules current and effective.
If I remember correctly, about the time of the UP-SP merger, TRAINS had an article about SP operations where they said SP tried the title “Master Of Freight Operations” until field personnel started pronouncing the acronym.
I was once offered the job a long time ago. I wasn’t interested. It involved a lot of paper work(now computer) and everyone’s problems become your problems.
Getting promoted to first-level supervision can be a real eye-opener. From the outside, the job doesn’t always look that hard to master. Once you get the position, you immediately find out what you don’t know and you stumble for a long time before you even have half of a notion of what you’re doing.
I’m not sure if this applies to all railroads, but back in the “old” steam engine days, engineers and firemen reported to the Master Mechanic. Yeah, I was surprised to hear that too, when one of the old heads told me about it. I bring that up, because it seems likely that the title, Road Foreman of Engines, might have been derived from his duty as the manager out in the field, as opposed to the Master Mechanic.
Some roads employe road foremen, who supervised engineers and firemen, but were subordinate to the trainmaster, as was the case on the former Southern Railroad, as I learned when I was qualifying on the old NS between Selma, NC and Charlotte to run Amtrak’s Carolinian. This surprised me, coming off the Seaboard Coast Line, because there, the road foreman and trainmaster always appeared to have equal authority.
Today, with the economizing of forces, the position of road foreman appears to be fading away. Trainmasters however, on some railroads (most, I would imagine), are promoted from the ranks of road foremen. The reason for this is that an engine qualified supervisor is required to fulfill regulatory obligations, such as periodic check rides with engineers, and the filing of the proper paperwork to satisfy the FRA. A trainmaster can do this, but he must be engineer qualified to do so.
As for the change to the title–doing away with the use of the word “foreman,” I’ve been retired now for eight years. The industry has been turned upside down and inside out. No matter what they call a manger on the railroad, it’s always been “them” and “us.” And nothing can change that.
Management lies and Labor tries to hold Management to the contract provisions that each party signed.
Morale depends to a great deal on the personalities of the participants involved on both sides at the local level. Some managers (like in ANY workplace) can be antagonistic terrors and for their own reasons they attempt to break every possible rule in the contract. By the same token Local Union officers can request malicious compliance with the contract provisions. In that enviornment morale is subnumerical. Most relationships are somewhere in the middle - just like they are in any business organization.
Union or non-union - not all employees are happy about the actions and instructions they get from their ‘leaders’.
Out of the RFE’s I was acquainted with, almost all were in that position for only a few years. Some didn’t last that long. The RFE title meant that they were salaried. Monetarily, for the hours spent testing, supervising and being involved with special moves, the job didn’t pay that much. They could and would give up the title and go back in the ranks and make more money as an engineer.
That is the case for several other frontline management positions on railroads. Trainmaster doesn’t pay any better than conductor, and is a much more stressful job.
CN calls the RFE position a Engine Service Officer, and while they are usually hired from the ranks this is not absolutely necessary, one must be a qualified locomotive engineer but having taken the ‘fast track’ management course seems to fulfill this requirement.
Most of their job seems to revolve around reviewing downloads and the training records of student engineers, while also serving as backup labour when no regular engineers are available.
ESO is the one management job left where you truly need the respect of your workforce, as crews need to feel they can talk to you about train handling issues and safety concerns they have encountered.
I can only speak from my experience as I only worked for one company after graduating from college and that was an electric utility that had a strong IBEW union for most labor. Clerical, Linemen, Meter Readers, Generating plant operators, etc. Most contracts were reasonable, overtime did become problematic sometimes. If there was too much, sometimes the phones would not be answered on call outs. When I was working with electricians, some of my fellow Electrical Engineers that adjusted electronic equipment got into disputes with them but I never had any issues. They new I respected their knowledge of their experience and that I would have them called out if it was their work and I would not think they were there to serve me. I would not expect them to tote my tool box as if they were my serf but I knew others did. They also looked the other way if I used a screw driver to remove a wire for trouble shooting.
Only time I got pissed was when I had to adjust a wave trap on a 138,000 volt transmission line and a few snow flakes fell on their trucks windshield when we started and the temp was near 30 degrees. The forman declared INCLEMENT Weather and the job was aborted. Did it the next day when there was no snow but the temp was about 5 degrees. I survived but the contract was abided by. I was cold! Otherwise I liked working with the union men.
Choosing to apply and be awarded a RFE position is by no means a promotion and is a reduction in pay earnings. In cab check rides have become suspended the past yr account of the Covid. When this does take place, the check ride is two hours, or 50 miles. One RFE fell asleep in the cab. Another one did not even know the siding location we were at when he contacted us on the radio as a check ride was going to be adminstered. Many RFE positions are combined w/trainmaster duties. No craft engr seniority here and even if I held such, the title of RFE would not be for this guy
First level Operating supervision on Class 1’s - Trainmaster or Road Foreman - rarely make as much or more than the FULL TIME employees they supervise. The full time employees that WORK (they accept ALL calls) and work for money not prestige; will out earn their supervisors every time.
So if they can make less money and have more stress, what is the trade-off for becoming an RFE? A more consistent and saner schedule? Or is it just a gateway into higher level management positions?