Just a small question. I know that on modern-day rolling stock there are no roofwalks and no high brake wheels (with exceptions given for covered hoppers). So my question is what year/time period were they outlawed and what modifications would have to be performed to the car to make it “legal” after this time period?
This is a fairly common question, and the simple answer was that roofwalks (not needed to access roof-top hatches) were banned for new cars in 1966, and were also banned for existing cars (although exemptions were granted for a number of years,with cars having roofwalks lasting into the 1970s). Other will have more info on this I’m sure.
One interesting thing is that often enough the brake wheel remained high-mounted after the roofwalk was removed, so that on that one corner the side/end ladders would remain full height for access to the brake-wheel, while all remaining ladders/rungs on the car were shortened.
OK, I believe this is an example of the above, but the caption was a bit vague, so I’m not 100% sure
Okay, thought it was in the mid-60s, but I couldn’t be sure. So I guess the roofwalks were removed from say boxcars round about then, but the brake wheel could remain up high as long as there was at least 1 ladder to reach it? That makes sense. And of course all new cars would have the brake wheel down low to meet the new rules.
So by saying that I could take an Athearn BB furniture/auto parts boxcar that I have, remove the roofwalk and shorten all the other ladders and “reasonably” say that its still in service today even with the high-mounted brake wheel?
when i worked in the car dept. back in the early 60’s i was on the rip track for a while and it seemed like some days half the cars we worked on were bad ordered for unsafe running boards. we sure used a lot of oak planks.
i can see why the railroads were eager to eliminate them. proper inspection required the car inspectors to climb up on top of every high car that came into the yard or at least walk the top of every cut and that in itself had to be time consuming.
with the coming of radio communication, it was seldom necessary to walk the top of a moving train or to get up on top to pass signals.
grizlump
I do most certainly understand it from a safety point of view to have the roofwalks removed except where absolutely necessary, and I guess the brake wheel being up high isn’t really all that much of a danger considering you won’t be setting the brakes until after the car is stopped so you have less of a chance of getting tossed off.
The removal of roofwalks and relocating brake wheels didn’t occur overnight, owners of large fleets were able to apply for waivers that delayed compliance well into the seventies.
Dave
Not exactly.
Suppose your car was one of the very last built with roof walks and a high brake wheel, having been outshopped in 1965. It would have hit its 40-year cutoff in 2005 and been banned from interchange service. So, if you are modeling today, it would probably be out of service in somebody’s salvage yard if it hadn’t already been cut up for recycling.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where roofwalks were unknown)
You have no idea as far as safety.
First you would ride a car if it was kicked for a flying switch in order to apply the brakes on especially short stubbed end sidings.
I have rode top of cars protecting reverse shoves of long cut of cars…Why was I there? I was there relaying hand signals from the “ground” man riding the end of the cut.I would relay his hand signals to the engineer or “swing” brakeman* on the ground and he would relay the signal to either the engineer or fireman…
- A “swing” brakeman is a extra brakeman added to a switch crew due to heavy switching and shoves of long cars especially in yard containing curves…The more common name was “extra brakeman”…Not sure what the “swing” meant since I only heard this from old line PRR conductors.
100 years ago or so, the brakewheel was horizontal, with the brake staff protruding up above the top of the car. These brakes were manually operated, brakemen often carried a heavy wooden staff to jam into the wheel to gain leverage when turning it. Look towards the left side of the roof of this model car:
http://www.steamshack.com/carpages/cv36/cv36scn.jpg
In the 1920’s-30’s powered brakes were introduced. These brakes had brakewheels that were vertical, located just below the level of the car’s roofline (on a house car). A small platform was under the brakewheel for the brakeman to rest one foot on to make it easier to reach and turn the brakewheel. Because it was powered, these were sometimes called “one hand” brakes, because you could turn the brakewheel with one hand, while holding the ladder with the other. Here’s a prototype picture:
http://thelibrary.springfield.missouri.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/images/photos/p00837.jpg
Starting in the sixties, regulations required roofwalks to be removed, and brakewheels to be moved towards the lower half of the car. As noted, there were many waivers and exemptions so it took a long time for all cars to be converted (or retired). See model pic below:
Stix wrote:These brakes were manually operated, brakemen often carried a heavy wooden staff to jam into the wheel to gain leverage when turning it.
That wooden “staff” was called a “Brakeman’s club” and it was 30" long and made out of oak…
The company would furnish the first club but,if you lost or broke it you was force to buy the replacement from the railroad.
Railroad cars didn’t have roofwalks. They did have running boards, however.
Mark
Mark,When I worked on the PRR they was called,roof walks,running boards,walk way and catwalk…
The more common terms was roof walk(conductors and brakemen) and running boards(carmen).
How they became known as running boards I don’t know because you never “ran” on 'em…
.
I forget who put it out - I’ll have to dig it out, it’s somewhere in the basement - but years ago a video came out of a 1949 Great Northern training video called “Safe Switching” that’s really fun to watch. It shows the proper way to use the various type of handbrakes, coupling and uncoupling cars (don’t get between the passenger cars with the new full-width vestibules!!), taking on water at a water tank, etc. Shows some stuff on signalling, including what appears to be an O scale model train showing what can happen down the road if you don’t slow down when passing a semaphore at caution.
AFAIK it’s never been released except on tape, my VHS copy must be over 20 years old now.
Thanks all. I really do appreciate the information. So a rail car has a 40 year “life span”? That I didn’t know, but I guess I should have expected it. So I guess that I won’t be using my furniture/automobile car (oh well, I’ll make sure it gets a good home), along with several other cars. No big deal, just trying to get an idea of what I can and can’t really have.
If the cars go through an AAR approved rehabilitation, they can remain in interchange service for 50 years. I saw an ARMN reefer today that was built in 1965. It still had its high brake wheel.
KC wrote:
At least, when boarding on the side, the man was outside the path of the car if he fell.
Actually you can fall under the wheels from the side…This is why switchmen can no longer swing on moving equipment.
KC wrote:Steel cabooses were noisy inside, ‘drumming’ from the rail joints and wheels.
Actually there was very little drumming because the train noise would drown that out…Ever ride in a caboose with a flat wheel for 112 miles?
As far as dropping a caboose…We never did that…That wasn’t our job,that job goes to the terminal caboose crew…Our job was completed as soon as the train stop or we swung off the caboose by the company van.The head crew would take the consist to the inbound locomotive track.
As far as paper work most conductors had that done before we arrived-they want to go home to or at least to the railroad YMCA.
As far as steel cabooses PRR started building their N5s in 1914.
All this talk of roofwalks, makes me wonder…
After the general introduction of air-brakes (on North American railroads), and no longer needing to stop trains by sending squads of men along the train to tighten brakes - why did you need roof-walks if the house-car had no roof hatches (they would still make sense for reefers or other cars w/ roof hatches). Why couldn’t have roofwalks been dispensed with, say after WWI, instead of 50 years later?
Also, I’d like to know what the brakemen did when they had a train of mixed cars, so that you had a boxcar (w/ roofwalk) followed by some flat cars, followed by some hoppers full of sand or gravel (better yet - half full) - how the heck could you race across that mixed bag to tighten brakes?
As I mention early some times there was a need to ride the roof of the cars in order to protect a long shove or pass hand signals.
You would climb down the ladder,swing across to the hopper or flat and climb the ladder on the hopper to set the brake or you would walk across the coal or stone to get to the brake wheel.Same applied for the flat car except you would walk along the edge of the flat car to get to the brake wheel.
This job was not for the faint of heart because it had to be done 24/7 in all types of weather and sadly many a young lad met a untimely death doing this job.
How dangerous?
Families of railroad men would keep a clean white sheet in the event that long dreaded knock on the door came and in the early years of railroading that knock came to frequently…
As a side note…There was no insurance in those days…The family would recieve a donation from the brotherhood and a King James Bible and absolutely nothing from the railroad.In fact the family might be billed for any missing railroad property issued to the employee at the time he was hired.
Before the age of dynamic engine brakes, greater reliance was placed on car brakes. On long, steeper downgrades, there was the danger/probability that the cars’ air-brake supply would be exhausted. Retainer valves were adjusted to prevent the loss of all air. This required brakement to go from car to car turning the valves. There could be three, four, five, or more brakeman assigned to trains, depending on train length, to accomplish this task. Thus, running boards were still necessary.
Mark