Any Railroaders on here have any dealings with RR Police? If so what was it for? And do they respond to train VS pedesterian/Train VS vehicle incidents? Thanks.
It depends on the railroad and where the incident takes place.
RR police are likely to patrol yards and areas where there have been recent disturbances (vandalism or prior reported tresspassing). A place like Tehachapi Loop or the hump in Barstow will most likely have police presence. If you’re talking about a local branch line or spur then the RR might just call the local sherriff.
RR police forces are relatively small, so they tend to focus on the most likely targets of opportunity (yards, shops, etc.) for hobos, vandals and thiefs.
Whether a railroad has an internal police force, relies on a private security company or the local PD depends on management. UP management has seen it fit to have a relatively large police force that patrols major installations and areas around the permanent way. Some shortlines have one cop on staff who mainly patrols the yard such as Pacific Harbor Lines.
Here’s a “funny irony” story for you.
Several years ago I attended a Norfolk Southern hiring session for conductors. Out of the original field of over 400 applicants, I survived several cuts until I was among the last 20 being considered (for 10 actual openings). The one-on-one interview went very well…I was encouraged.
But during the session it was mentioned that there were several “wash-out” areas in the training that was to be provided…and that one of those that had a tendancy to surprise people who failed was the requirement to hang on the side of a car, while it was shoved around. The guy running the show pointed out that for whatever reason some people could do it, while others could not…no rhyme or reason, no bearing on strength,…it just happens so if it happens to you don’t feel bad…etc
Anyway I walked out of that training session with a pretty positive expectation that I was gonna get a call …within the next week to 10 days.
The speil about hanging on that ladder being a “no rhyme or reason” failure point in my anticipated training, really stuck with me.
So much so, that I just HAD to see for myself. I went to a really out of the way siding, one that I had railfanned extensively as a younger man with no mishaps, found an empty auto rack, and hopped on the ladder and started watching my watch.
During my third timed episode I heard the gravel behind me crunching under the weight of an approaching vehicle. A railroad cop no less…my first encounter with one.
As he took my ID, I asked him if I was going to jail, his reply was “not unless you are already in our computers”
And it was at that moment in time I understood that my very positive expectations to be hired, just flew out the window.
Shame too, because I was a real champ hanging on that ladder, after I figured out that t
[quote user=“Convicted One”]
wilmette2210
If so what was it for?
Here’s a “funny irony” story for you.
Several years ago I attended a Norfolk Southern hiring session for conductors. Out of the original field of over 400 applicants, I survived several cuts until I was among the last 20 being considered (for 10 actual openings). The one-on-one interview went very well…I was encouraged.
But during the session it was mentioned that there were several “wash-out” areas in the training that was to be provided…and that one of those that had a tendancy to surprise people who failed was the requirement to hang on the side of a car, while it was shoved around. The guy running the show pointed out that for whatever reason some people could do it, while others could not…no rhyme or reason, no bearing on strength,…it just happens so if it happens to you don’t feel bad…etc
Anyway I walked out of that training session with a pretty positive expectation that I was gonna get a call …within the next week to 10 days.
The speil about hanging on that ladder being a “no rhyme or reason” failure point in my anticipated training, really stuck with me.
So much so, that I just HAD to see for myself. I went to a really out of the way siding, one that I had railfanned extensively as a younger man with no mishaps, found an empty auto rack, and hopped on the ladder and started watching my watch.
During my third timed episode I heard the gravel behind me crunching under the weight of an approaching vehicle. A railroad cop no less…my first encounter with one.
As he took my ID, I asked him if I was going to jail, his reply was “not unless you are already in our computers”
And it was at that moment in time I understood that my
Sheesh, why didn’t you just tell him you were in conductor class and needed to verify the best way to do your job in a way the trainers expressed as a significant concern?
The cop should have written you up for diligence in learning, not written you up for trespass or whatever. If he’s like most of the railroad police I have met, he’d sympathize more with you than with ‘management’…
Balt, I don’t doubt for a second that “operational factors” can make hanging on even more difficult, but the way it was presented to us at the hiring session was that mechanics was the issue.
Expecting to be hired at the time, I didn’t want to risk going all the way down to Georgia only to embarass myself over something so simple…so it was a matter of wanting to dismiss variables.
My first effort was to grasp the rung at waist level, and I quickly saw why this was not a good idea, too much effort dedicated to holding ones self close to the car. finger stress.
Holding a rung high above the head seemed to put too much required effort on the back muscles, and made me feel like a human pendulum. I could have held on, but only if I couldn’t avoid it.
But one rung above the shoulder, with the bicep action absorbing most of the movement was really comfortable to me. That would have been the way I would haVE “tested” had I ever gotten the opportunity.
Which is what I went out looking for…the posture I could feel comfortable with.
What Balt said, except for the “in many cases” part.
Railroad police are real police, undergoing the same training and certification as municipal or state policemen would, and they have the power of the law behind them.
Because of my unusual way of getting to work whle I was employed by the railroad (by bicycle), I was often questioned by the police. To their credit, though, it only happened once per officer. It was usually followed by pleasant conversation, often ending with “Be careful, okay?”
Toward the end of my career I served on the same yard safety committee as the chief (who had a lot more than our yard as his jurisdiction).
I’ve thought back to that episode a number of times, and wondered the same thing.
But there is just something about being caught doing something silly, that totally drains your self confidence.
“45 year old man playing choo-choo” was not something I felt like I wanted to try and defend myself against. Plus at the hiring session, the guy running it emphasized over and again the thorough and sifting dilligence of their in-house security. So…seeing the cop as a possible ally just wasn’t on the books for that day.
Plus, I realize that most of the people a cop is going to run into in a days time really are up to no good. That is their normal.
But running into “Bambi” testing himself for a possible entrance examination is so far from that normal that I doubt he could have believed it. I mean the rack WAS empty…I had that much going in my favor…but still.
That just reminded me, the above recapped event was NOT my first experience with RR police.
34-35 years prior the railroads had just implemented the “KarTrak” colored barcode car tracking system. A friend and I found all this quite interesting, and during our examination of a string of boxcars to see what valuable info the colorcodes might offer…a middle aged railroad detective came up on us, thinking we were attempting to break into the cars.
Our alibi of “innocent curiosity” didn’t impress him one bit. But he also lied to us, he told us the color codes revealed the cars destination. Why it was important for him to tell us that I’ll never understand.
Got off with just a warning that time, too.
He may have said that because he honestly didn’t know. A lot of people (including those who should have) didn’t have a clue about those stripes.
But I doubt that he’d allow you to teach him about the labels yourself. I was fortunate enough to see these labels and decipher them myself without being detained. Of course, I did have a prolem with the “*” strip that occasionally appeared in the validity-check position.
At the time, I had no clue either. But somewhere over the years I came into possession of a key that laid it all out. A relative that had absolutely no connection to railroading passed, and it was among his effects.
Tell me more about this. I assume you are talking about the parity check in line 13.
Calculating the value was bad enough! Even Wikipedia makes it hard to figure out (if you aren’t a computer nerd). Each of the numbers encoded by a line is multiplied by 2 to the power of the numerical line position -2 (the reason being the counting was done from computer 0 rather than numerical 1 for first position). Then you multiply the result by powers of two starting with the first numerical line value (which is position 2): 1 for the second line (which is identity multiplication), 2 for the second (which, channelling Tom Lehrer, is of course the third, just checking to ensure you’re following along…) up to 512 for the last (10th). Then add up all the numbers modulo 11 and you get the value.
Unfortunately this didn’t give you as much error correction capability as it did error recognition – the deck being stacked against the GTE system almost from the beginning in the understanding of almost anyone who understood the railroad environment. Perhaps it was assumed in the America of the Johnson Administration that the railroads WOULD maintain those labels with flawless perfection because they were Federally mandated … or something.
Unsurprisingly a colossal flop, abandoned within a decade of practical instantiation. Its chief effect was to inoculate the railroads against any scheme of automated car identification, no matter how good it might have been, until well into the 1980s.
And now it’s all RFID and little gray bricks on the sides of the cars…
I stated ‘in many cases’ because I believe there are a few states where full police powers cannot be conveyed to ‘private’ police - I could be mistaken. As we learn over time - the exception is always the rule.
When you first qualified it as “in many cases”, I didn’t interpret it the same way Cshave did. I took it more along the lines of “selective enforcement”, where even if the officer is so empowered, they (still) might elect to not involve themselves.
Two drunks fighting outside a bar as the officer is driving by, or some wino relieving himself on a downtown street corner, or kids with illegal fireworks,…stuff like that. I’m sure there is some “mind your primary duties” type instruction, for productivity as well as possible undue liability.
I believe that most civil law enforcement agencies are sworn to serve the peace, or “greater common good”…or something like that.
Not knowing first hand, but I’d speculate that there is no such requirement for private agencies.
Generally speaking, a police officer only has authority in the juridiction in which he works.
There are exceptions, hot pursuit being the best known. Around here, it’s not at all unusual for the small town officers to help each other out and respond outside their jurisdiction, but when it comes down to the arrest, the officer with jurisdiction will generally handle that.
If they happen to be outside their jurisdiction, they may turn a blind eye to offenses with minimal consequence (the drunk), but would probably intervene it was something violent.
Many RR police travel in unmarked vehicles, and not in any uniform, so you wouldn’t generally know just exactly who that was that just drove by.
I think you will find that railway police have more authority, in some cases, than the locals. They are ordained by federal law, not local. They were established initially in response to train robberies which were a threat to Postal traffic and interstate commerce. They enforce federal as well as local laws. That’s why they are called “special agents”.
How are jurisdictions determined for RR police? Local? State? Regional? other?
Would a Norfolk Southern RR cop based in Missouri have jurisdiction on Norfolk Southern property in Ohio? Any different off Norfolk Southern property in Ohio?
Can’t answer that, but as someone pointed out, there may be different requirements in different states. It might simply be a matter of some paperwork… I would opine that within a given state, they’d be a lot like the state police - they’d have authority everywhere.
This may be of interest on the topic, from Title 49 of the U.S. Code (at least as of last year’s edition) part of the section shown below which may answer a couple of questions:
§ 28101. Rail police officers
(a) IN GENERAL.—Under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Transportation, a rail police officer who is directly employed by or contracted by a rail carrier and certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of a State may enforce the laws of any jurisdiction in which the rail carrier owns property, to the extent of the authority of a police officer certified or commissioned under the laws of that jurisdiction, to protect—
(1) employees, passengers, or patrons of the rail carrier;
(2) property, equipment, and facilities owned, leased, operated, or maintained by the rail carrier;
(3) property moving in interstate or foreign commerce in the possession of the rail carrier; and
(4) personnel, equipment, and material moving by rail that are vital to the national defense.