So, I have been working on modules for an ogden based layout. I’ve made it through the sperry flour area, on to the PFE loading docks as far as trackage is concerned. I have the track working well. All the turnouts run flawlessly. The DCC system is working well. And lastly, I’m finally starting to scratchbuild the buildings. I like the way it is coming together, and I like the way it will work into a bigger plan as time and space allows.
However, sometimes I just want to see trains run. I find myself today thinking, maybe I should have just done some variation on an oval of track. It will be many years before trains will run through this 15 foot modular section on their way somewhere else, and in that period of time, I can’t just run trains. Yes, I can operate, I can switch industrys, but for some reason the last couple of days it just seems to be missing something. Anyone else had similar thoughts…
I have worried about this a great deal. All my past layouts have been table top size with ovals and some switching. However, my next layout will be a series of shelf sections for the most part. These will eventually connect to a (some) larger section(s) capable of supporting continuous running, but that would be years away.
At the same time, I prefer to build my locomotives from kits or bash from old, cheap junkers, which means having a continuous run test track is very advantageous. And occasionally, I just like to watch trains run.
I end up with 2 possible solutions:
build the continuous run section first or very early in the section sequence. This solution is NOT favored by the Chairman of the Board who wants to see a furniture quality shelf layout this time.
build a small test track oval layout that can be stored vertically near the work bench. This is practical for me because of small locomotives in HO and HOn3. The test track could be as small as 40" x 50" if need be.
Try looking at the real thing… miles of plain track with little bits of towns and yards/stations.
Most of us can’t have both in proportion but I suspect that when we railfan we go where we can see the trains run through rather than some, probably confined/messy area with “keep out” signs to watch switching.
[Long ago I set out to photograph a train being switched from an overbridge. It used a lot of film {stills} and was basically boring. I achieved it but wouldn’t do it again].
I tend now to design around the wall loops that can be operated out-and-back if I want to be technical or as simple loops to let trains roll by. Put another way… I have the scenery one side of the room and part of each end and long storage loops on the back wall. Arrnaged right these can either act as dead end yards or allow a train to keep rolling through in one or both directions at a time.
As for how long it takes. Personally I prefer to do the baseboards once to high standard and (HOPEFULLY) never have to do that bit again.
I tried to do a blend of both. I have two main lines that can just run in a loop. I can let the outer one run and turn the inner one into switching and ops. I go more for detail and looks than ops, but I’m the only person that works on mine.[:(]
My benchwork will be 2 along-the-walls shelves (L-shaped 24-30"deep) with 2-48"wide peninsulas jutting out into the room, effectively forming an “E”. My continuous run will start at one end of the “E” and go to the other end, bypassing the center peninsula. There will be some limited industry-switching in this run.
The center peninsula will be for my classification yard, which is where most switching will take place. It’s single-ended, so locos will be turned to exit the yard.
My approach will be to complete the continuous trackwork and then later tie in the classification yard, allowing me to run trains during construction of the yard. This plan also gives me a choice to run continuous or operate once everything is complete, which may not be in my lifetime - overall size is about 24’ on each leg.
I know what you mean. I like to get trains running and sit and watch them go sometimes. Especially if I am sitting and thinking about how to tweak a scene. But I would get bored if that was all they did.
My next project is going to be a staging to point layout–no continuous running. I plan on keeping the layout I have now working until I get to the phase where continuous running is possible, just so I can watch them go.
Oh yes, I’ve built all of my layouts for both. I generally complete the trackwork for at least one continuous run piece first then work on areas. I think that most of us have times when we just want to sit back and watch the trains run for a few minutes.
Operations can get stale after a long time. So can continuous running. I like to adjust the mix according to who is visiting or (more commonly) my own mood.
Do you have room to build a temporary unscenicked loop either behind the modules or around the room. It could probably be done fairly quickly and the track and the benchwork could easily be converted to scenicked sections later on.
I had a similar dilema. I am building a large around the basement layout with reversing loops at both ends. I considered making one of the loops portable so I could build the mainline a section at a time and then inserting the new sections between the portable loop and the rest of the mainline. I decided to just build the entire unscenicked mainline between two permanent reverse loops and then fill in the scenery a section at a time. The mainline was completed fairly quickly but filling in the scenery has been a slow process. I don’t really like running the trains through the unscenicked sections. Sometimes I wish I had stayed with the original plan.
This one is easy for me anyway. Create a general plan. Do whatever it takes to complete at least one mainline. Complete the sidings and yard(s). Scenic.
I currently have two completed mainline loops and my yard is 20% complete (little over a years time). There was no way I could have done this an not have my trains running. It did complicate things when I have to rip up the mainline a couple of time due to poor planning but the end result is still good I think.
In over 60 years and untold layouts, I have learned the hard way that the track comes first. If you don’t have the room to build the entire layout, then build the modules. I am now just finishing an eight foot mock-up module of the NHRR’s Old Saybrook Station area. I am building it complete with paper buildings and the track lightly tacked down on cork roadbed. When that is to my liking, I will then build the actual module.
But before I scenic, operating is a MUST to prove and debug the track work and operating possibilties. If at all possible I build two dummy return loops that can be connected to the modules to prove that everything operates as planned. It also a great asset in debugging engine and rolling stock.
Just building the paper buildings has saved me a huge cost in wasted styrene.
I haven’t built the building yet. That design will be layout based, not the other way around. But when I had the space, in the basement for instance, I always built ALL of the bench work and laid ALL of the track work. Scenery can wait until you have a railroad that works, runs well, is derailment proof and can be operated in a realistic way as you envisioned it. In the meantime, I place my paper buildings and the already built modules where planned before ANY scenicing is done.
In this way you can find and correct any mistakes or problem areas, remove or replace any track or defective switches, and end up with a well running and practical for operations model railroad.
Replacing track after the scenery is in is NOT AN OPTION!
If you don’t like running trains on unsceniced trackage try using your imagination. It is a great opportunity to envisage the final scenery treatment and eliminate problems that can’t be solved without moving some track.
My views are slightly skewed by the fact I’m a yardmaster/trainmaster in a major Class I terminal. I do for a living what most of you guys try and replicate in operations.
My layout is designed primarily for continous run. However, I do have some simple industry switching, should the urge strike me.
I am a (fill in your choice of adjectives) fanatical operator, to the extent that I’ve distilled an entire month of scheduled train movements and included it in my car distribution system. I am also in the process of building the biggest (in square whatevers) layout I’ve ever had room for. As a result, the only things operating at the moment are one un-sceniced module and a work train on temporary track.
When I start building trackage that isn’t intended to be hidden, I expect to do a quick and dirty job of scenery construction - paper bags over cardboard strips, all held together with tape. Primary purpose will be to provide a safety net around trackage that won’t have fences to prevent oops! moments. The appearance factor, while secondary, will also be important. Nice thing about the ‘scenery’ I’m planning is that it will go together in minutes - and come apart in seconds when necessary.
Of course, it’s always nice to have a continuous loop where a train can orbit while the mundanes ooh and ah. Happily, my operating scheme requires a bypass track which will serve the purpose admirably.
Started with a 10’ shelf swithching layout. Bot bored. Extended the shelf around a corner for another 10’. Still boring after awhile.
So, now, in the middle of my basement I have the equivelent of 3 loops plus 10 industry sidings plus a yard and loco tracks. Now I can run continuous and switching at the same time. Much more interesting and fun for me.
I have a good imagingation but now have started some scenery and it really makes the layout come alive. It’s slow going but well worth it. My ultimate goal was to extend this plan to go around the wall so the trains really go somewhere and come back. But, I spend so much time running the trains, fiddling with DCC stuff, and now trying to have the discipline to add scenery that I don’t think I’ll ever do the ultimate plan.
I am the exact same way. I liek to operate in a prototypical fashion, but sometimes I like to just watch trains, or have them runnign in the background while I work at the bench.
I’ve seen in some of the articles by the more ‘hardcore’ operators that they NEVER run traisn on their layout except during the monthly operating sessions. Yuck. That is SO not me. After allt he effort put into a layout, I need to run trains more often than once a month. My feelign is that if it becomes such a chore that you only WANT to do it once a month, there’s something fundamentally wrong somewhere.
I have to agree. If you only allow yourself to run your trains during operating sessions, it almost makes it seem like running the trains is work. What’s wrong with running trains just for the fun of it. But then, who am I to tell someone else how to run their layout.
I’m not sure that calling it a chore would be the proper description. I think it’s more that some of these large, operationally intense layouts require multiple operators to operate properly. If you need 6-12 operators (or more) to operate the layout, it’s a major logistical challenge to schedule enough operators even once a month let alone once a week. OTOH, if you model a branch line or even a lightly trafficked secondary mainline, you can get away with solo operations or just have a friend or two over for a session.
Examples:
SP’s Monterey Branch in the 40’s. There were a total of 8 trains a day (4 inbound, 4 outbound, 2 of which were the “Del Monte”). Other than early in the morning, there was never more than one train at a time on the branch. A layout based on this branch could get by with as few as 3 locomotives, a couple of 2-8-0’s and a Pacific for the “Del Monte”, with maybe a 4-6-0 for variety. In diesel years, all you’d need is a boiler equipped GP-9 for the “Del Monte” and a couple of GP-9’s for freight.
Jared Harper’s model of Santa Fe’s Alma Branch (article on Armstrong plan for branch appeared in August, 2006, MR). This was a daily except Sunday mixed train operation. Unless you run the northbound train and a friend runs the southbound train, this is definitely a solo operation. You’d only need one loco to operate this one, a 1050 class 2-6-2 in steam years or a Fairbanks-Morse H16-44 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CPR_H-16-44_8555.jpg - in Santa Fe paint ) for diesel years.
B&M’s Peterborough Branch (made famous by the late Phil H
In spite of the hyping of the subject that one continuously sees in the magazines, “operations” has historically never been the main focus of most model railroading hobbyists - simply running trains has been. Playing operations is fun and my own layout is pretty much designed for it but I still consider it a mistake to construct a pike where no continuous running at all is possible. As several other posters have suggested, for the great majority of us there will always be times when we just wish to sit back hands-off and watch our trains run through the various layout scenes totally without interuption.
I learned from experienced people like Peter that the track comes first, yard… sidings and all. I built all of that and I’m still in the ‘testing’ phase whi
