Recently at a sale i purchased a gorgeous 726 Berkshire with its big old diecast tender. Ex plus for 150!!! I usually sell all the postwar i get but this is just too nice. Anyway the loco has the very attractive Red marbled bakelite brushplate. I am going to disassemble it soon to clean the guts and service it completely. I usually use PPG acryli-clean to remove motor grime and clean up the e-units. I am always maybe too careful and always do research before cleaning new materials. I read up on Bakelite and it says not to use any cleaners containing ammonia or alcohol. Supposedly bakelite has a very thin finish which is easily destroyed and impossible to get back. One site recommended lighter fuel and paint thinner. (These sites were mainly refinishing forums for old bakelite appliances and tube radios). I read something in CTT once that lighter fuel was a good cleaning agent for plastics. Is this true? I think ill go with it as it would have less chance disturbing paint than the thinner. I think the biggest extent of the solvent would be using soaked swabs in the brush tubes. I have had red plated atomic motors before but this one is a beautiful piece of bakelite!!!
Whenever I’ve purchased 1122 switches (and correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the bases on those are Bakelite,) I just clean it up with WD-40 on a paper towel and/or swab. It takes a while to remove all the WD-40 residue, but it sure is clean and it doesn’t seem to harm the finish. Now, I usually use a tuner cleaner to remove the WD when cleaning most items, but I think I’d stay away from the tuner cleaner with the Bakelite items. Thoughts everyone?
What are you cleaning? Unpainted or painted plastic? Any lettering or other decorations?
For painted or decorated items, the last things I would use are lighter fluid, paint thinner, tuner cleaner, or WD-40.
If you are trying to clean motor grime off your old brushplate, mineral spirits will work just fine.
If you are trying to clean a plastic item that is painted or decorated in any way, I wouldn’t use anything stronger than Murphy’s Oil soap.
Even with Murphy’s, too much cleaning will remove paint, lettering, etc.
Don’t rub decorated items dry.
I shake all the excess water off, and hang the item in front of a fan to dry.
(We have a water softener, so water spots are not an issue)
Butchers wax will do a nice job of shining up Bakelite.
Proceed at your own risk. There are no cleaning techniques that are 100% fool-proof.
Use warm soapy(Dawn) water and a toothbrush for Bakelite. I’ve even run KW housings through the dishwasher.
Never use lighter fluid(gasoline, naphtha, petrol, etc) for cleaning anything. It’s very dangerous.
Rob
Im trying to clean my brushplate in a safe way that doesnt harm the finish. Im not concerned with blowing myself up. I use PPG products to clean e units completely. I just use them in moderation in a well ventilated area. Im sure the acryli clean is far more volatile than lighter fuel. I think im going to put a dab of lighter fuel on a swab and clean out the tubes that way. Seems like the safest bet for the bakelite.
ivesboy,
From what I understand, Bakelite is unaffected by solvents. I’ve used 99.9% isopropyl alcohol, Zippo lighter fluid, and CRC contact cleaner on Bakelite and have never had any problems. Any other plastic parts get cleaned with a few drops of Dawn liquid dish soap in warm water applied gently with a toothbrush or paintbrush.
Ive become very interested in this…part of my obsessive personality i suppose. After posting on some antique forums the general concensus is knowbody knows!!! It seems paint thinner and lighter fluid which is naptha are considered the safest option next to soap and water. Many of the radio guys recommend tuner cleaner, and wd-40. As a painter and restorer i consider wd-40 to be par with the ebola virus! I wont even let it near my shop as it is the worst enemy of a fine paint job. So mineral spirits/pain thinner and naptha/lighter fluid are both refined petroleum products, so why woudl one be safe and not the other? I have been warned that alcohol is a big no-no on bakelite. It supposedly removes the glossy finish.
I believe that hard plastics like Bakelite are relatively impervious to solvents. However, keep this in mind: solvents like lacquer thinner and MEK are what is called “complete solvents” and they will dissolve almost anything. Whatever is in WD-40 in my experience, won’t dissolve much besides oil and grease, although I wouldn’t get it or any other solvent on paint, particularly lettering. Soft plastics are much more susceptible to damage by solvents. The 022 switches are Bakelite, but the 1122s are soft plastic. Bruce Baker
I dont like using wd-40 as i do alot of restoration work and it is the worst enemy for a nice paint job it seems to get on anything! I just found this thread, seems like these Packard guys really know their stuff. Dont understand all the chemical mumbo, but no alkalis and esters. Esters seem to be laquer thinner like products so youre right in that department. What is an alkali? http://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=51483
Since you agree that WD-40 is undesirable, why do you think that the same folks who recommend it might be correct when they recommend other cleaning products? Doesn’t their support of using WD-40 give you reason to mistrust their judgement?
WD-40 is OK for cleaning and protecting metal tools. I don’t use it on trains.
Yes and no, it seems everyone says something different!
Someone remind me… What is wrong with WD-40?
CWBurfle says it (amongst other things) is the last thing he would use on painted or decorated items.
There is nothing wrong with using WD-40 as a cleaning solvent. WD-40 is made from:
50%: Stoddard solvent (i.e., mineral spirits – primarily hexane, somewhat similar to kerosene)
25%: Liquefied petroleum gas (presumably as a propellant; carbon dioxide is now used instead to reduce WD-40’s considerable flammability)
15+%: Mineral oil (light lubricating oil)
10-%: Inert ingredients (the smell)
No alcohol, no fish oil.
I have read no reports of it removing anything from model trains other than dirt and some stamped lettering. Recommend clean around non heat stamped lettering. (Same warning for soap and water.)
Soap and Water can start steel components rusting if not completely dried off. WD-40, on the other hand, was created as a water displacement chemical to protect metal parts.
Now from the WD-40 site, "WD-40
Thanks for that.
I was watching a movie the other night and an attorney appointed to defend a man remarked, “Sometimes the more we look, the less we know.” I think that statement applies wholly to this situation! I used to have the general belief that bakelite was almost impervious to anything! They make ashtrays, car parts, electrical components, toasters, radios, phones, jewelry, and who knows what else, i could go on and on. Then!!! I became concerned when i got some i actually worried about, and now it seems to me to be the most fragile material on Earth. I had almost decided on Naptha, then that was ruled out, then kerosene, and that was deemed unsafe!!! Paint thinner/ mineral spirits, somebody said that was a bad idea! The only thing everyone agrees one is soap and water will not harm it!!! As for WD-40…The problem with it is that once it is on, it almost never will come completely off. Therefore, if you ever want it gone, for paint, or whatever reason you are S.O.L.!!! I suppose i will leave this class with 2 learned lessons: 1: You have to be a chemical engineer versed in obselete plastics to answer what i asked. 2: Soap and water are safe on anything if used properly!!! I wiped an old broken piece of black bakelite down with lighter fluid and it seemingly had no effect. WIll it fall apart in a week or a year from it??? I dont know. Does it leave a residue when it evaporates??? I dont know. Im a historian!!! What i will do is disassemble the loco, remove the brushplate and clean the commutator. I will probably clean the brush wells out with dry swabs and if i feel they need it, put some softsoap and water on a swab and use that. I could care less about the rest of the bakelite, but the red is too pretty to hurt! P.S. Did you ever read the MSDS sheets on chemical solvents? Hardly anything, and i mean i found one product will state that is it completely plastic safe. And they all say in one phrase or another that using the product will kill you!!!
Another issue with WD-40 is the fact it will leave behind more oil!!! Thats what im trying to get rid of. Im not actually trying to clean the brushplate, but the inside of the tubes! WHatever i use will get all over the plate, potentially harming the plastic! Here is a pic! http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/ivesboy/DSCF2737.JPG Dont know how to post it in a reply. Its a 671 but you get the point. Anyone who runs these engines knows how darn hot those get when they are clean, imagine a bad connection!!!
And that oil will collect dust and dirt.
Having read all the opinions and ideas on here, this is what I know–I use WD-40 to CLEAN stuff; it’s an excellent solvent; it softens and removes caked-on grease, dirt, dust bunnies, and the like. I did not say I’d use it as a long-term lubricant. The oil residue left behind does attract dust and dirt in the long run, which is why I remove it with tuner cleaner when I’m done cleaning the part and then lubricate with Labelle’s or some other appropriate hobby lube. You CAN remove WD-40 from a surface-completely-with tuner cleaner, Radio Shack electrical parts cleaner, or automotive-style electrical parts cleaner (just check the label for “plastic safe” on whatever product you buy.) WD-40 is designed to leave behind that film so it repels moisture (hence the “WD” in the name,) but that’s not really a concern for us in the hobby world (unless your train room is really, really wet!)
Like a man with two watches never knows what time it is.
If you wipe it off, the thin film will not migrate anywhere. (Exception is optics. If you do not get all the light oil out of a shutter mechanism, it somehow ends up inside the lens.)
Soap and water will remove it also. Of course if residual oil is a problem, you might as well use tuner cleaner or soap and water in the first place.
Dry clean? You are just going to wipe the oil and grime off? Smart!
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Sunday evening i decided to play scientist. I took 2 pieces of a broken Bakelite brush plate. I got 2 jars and put the pieces in them. I filled them up with lighter fluid. One i let sit for well over 2 hrs, and the other well over 24. Neither piece was affected by the naptha or lighter fluid. So that answers the question.
My loco is fully rebuilt (after 7 hrs) and out running all the new computerized junk on my local hobby shop’s layout.