Does anyone known if the S&NC has begun work on the line from North Creek to Tahawus?
S&NCRR website @ https://www.sncrr.com/
I did find the following link which seems to originate some valid news on S&NSRR.
http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2012/06/dave-gibson-saratoga-north-creek-rr-on-to-newcomb.html
Apparently some issue regarding the validity of the ROW and a conflict with New York State Laws (?) below is just a snippet from the article.
FTL:'…There is another ambiguous legal issue. The NYS Wild, Scenic and Recreational River regulations overseen by DEC disallow new railroad uses along Wild and Scenic rivers (1/2 mile river corridor on either side of the river). The Tahawus spur runs along the Boreas River, a designated Scenic river. Arguments could well be made that rail restoration and use, defunct since 1989, is a new use, and hence prohibited by regulation, or that the rail spur and ROW were pre-existing. In addition, there are very important points to be made about what types and extent of recreation should be allowed within the ROW…"
Seems to be a pretty good explanation(read full article) of what is going on with the S&NC on the legal front_._ It would seem that the operations have moved to the “my lawyer can whip you lawyer” stage?
On a positive note, the following link is to an article about the operations and the train ride, with photos of some of the equipment.
_**http://www.loonyaboutadirondacks.com/Saratoga-and-North-Creek-Railway.html**_
I have been following this story for some time, and the Adirondack Almanack article is the best I’ve seen on the topic. Even the comments were informative. Concerning the abandonment question, one pointed out that they continued to cut brush and repair washouts while the line was out of service. The Lawyer still fighting the restart, pointed out that the NY state law was not ambiguous on what constitutes abandonment. I’ll take his word on it, however, a law that is so restrictive and inflexible, that it does not allow for things like the re-utilization of existing track, is not in the public good.
Link to the Surface Transportation Board’s recent (June 14 - 15, 2012) decision in Docket Number: FD_35631_0, “SARATOGA AND NORTH CREEK RAILWAY, LLC–OPERATION EXEMPTION–TAHAWUS LINE”, “DECISION DENIED A PETITON FILED BY ATLANTIC STATES LEGAL FOUNDATION AND THE ADIRONDACK COMMITTEE OF THE ATLANTIC CHAPTER OF THE SIERRA CLUB TO REJECT SARATOGA AND NORTH CREEK RAILWAY, LLC’S NOTICE OF EXEMPTION.”, 42466.pdf:
Very briefly, all that the STB - actually, just its “Director of Proceedings” - decided was that the railroad was indeed exempt from having to go through any formal legal process of the STB’s to restart the proposed limited rail service on this line. Pretty much all of the other issues were left to be decided on another day or by another court (i.e., New York State).
- Paul North.
Paul:
The link you provided was some pretty interesting reading.
Thanks, for providing it. Not being a lawyer, I am guessing that it might have some ramifications and possibly, some bearing on the situation going on at the ASR’s extension. It seems that Rails to Trails folks are down there trying to stir up similar mischief as the ASR is trying to reclaim some of their long, underused and disused ROW.
Maybe Tree68 ( Larry) will see this?
Extension of service for ASRR hasn’t received any such legal challenges that I’m aware of. The line is an established state “transportation corridor.” Track conditions and equipment permitting (and that’s the hold-up) we could begin through service tomorrow, to rousing cheers, except from the trail advocates who want to see the tracks lifted.
I suspect that on the whole, the environmental people would prefer the trains to the cars that would otherwise make the trip.
In the Tahawus line case, I think the trail people had to hang back as it was pointed out in another internet thread by the wildlife people that there was apparently a provision in the original agreement (back in WWII) that the line would revert back to wilderness upon abandonment. I noticed in one of the Adirondack Almanack comments by a trail advocate that they were glad the feds steeped in to change the status of the line making it possible for eventual trail conversion. I imagine once the present controversy is settled, they will start the campaign to pull up the rails here also.
I just rode the S&NC today, and the brakeman said they would be running a train to North River this Wed. North River is only a few miles north of North Creek, and I presume the customer is the Garnet mine there.
Thanks for the update. What did you think of the ride ?
The ride in the S&NC was great, but I found out that you can’t count on dome seats when buying the tickets at train time. They said I could probably upgrade to dome on the return trip, however, the second train of the day was cancelled (for equipment problems), and any extra dome space was needed for rebookings. The dome seats were set up for 4 seat dining, which IMHO does not enhance the sightseeing possibilities. The crew is very cordial, just like on Iowa Pacific’s Rio Grande Scenic. There are about a half dozen flagstops along the line, and we made a couple of stops. The train seems to move at a good clip, considering the curving nature of the line along the upper Hudson. There are a number of deli and other lunch options in North Creek. We also added the optional Gore Mtn Ski Area gondola lift ride to the top. Nice overview of the Adirondacks.