Sawing -by

Remember talking to a relative that worked for the ATSF out of La Junta ,Colo. Told me about the technique of “sawing by” and “a double sawing”. He was an old timer but I think he said it still happened when he started running diesels. Don’t hear the term any more because ( and this is my assumption) that the manuever is not needed now due to double tracking and or longer “holes” (sidings) and shorter trains.
It, a “double saw” sounded tricky and like a lot of work.

Any body got any input on this subject?

Well, your timing is terrific! I think you forgot the infamous events of April 1,1900(April 30?) when Casey Jones (on IC#1)rammed into the rear of a southbound freight at Vaughn MS. The freight he hit was sticking out of the north end of the siding at Vaughn, because there was another freight in the siding ahead of it. The trains had to maneuver each other to let another southbound train(Jones’) into the station at Vaughn, then they would back up to clear the switch at the south end of Vaughn to enable #1 to proceed. Well Casey became a folk hero then, but had he been running Amtrak F40PH 382 a century later, rather than an IC 4-6-0 of the same number, in 1900 the media would have boiled him in oil!!

I observed a saw-by on UP in Feb.

dd

If Casey Jones was operating trains in the post-WW2 era in the same way he was operating in the 1890’s, he would probably have been dismissed long before he got into the situation at Vaughn, MS. It is known that he had been suspended several times for unsafe operation, and “Safety First” was a slogan and not much more than that during that period. He may be a folk hero, but I’m not sure that I would want him at the controls of Amtrak #58.

Although it would probably be on time for the first time in decades!
Has anyone ever seen or heard of someone doing a double saw by recently? It is a lot of work…

A double saw-by is not only a lot of work, but it might get the dispatcher who set up the meet a new career as a greeter at Wal-Mart.

We do simple saw bys all the time, but wouldn’t want to do a double…I would rather bring a big lunch and watch them work instead!
Ed

Double Saw-by’s are announced by the Dispatcher with the phrase…

‘What do you mean you don’t fit’'. as his heart gets stuck in his throat.

I still happens today, mostly when the Dispatcher does not get accurate train length reports for trains in single track territory.

A while back, I saw a show that showed this on the RFD Network (cable / satellite) on their “Trains and Locomotives” servies. It was filmed on Raton Pass and showed 2 BNSF trains doing a double saw-by at a siding on the west side of the pass. This would have been in the last 10 yrs given the power on the trains. Even with their edited film, it took a long time to get those 2 trains past each other.

In one of J.D. Santucci’s “Hot Times on the High Iron”, he talks about having to do a double saw-by at Marsh on the Wisconsin central in the late eighties.

www.railroad.net carries most of his series dating back to about 2002.

ns occassionally has to do a saw by on the old nkp line here in ohio(especially with doublestack trains)
stay safe
Joe

So how would a double saw by work? I guess I am failing to see how it happens.

Doubles occur when both trains are too long for the available siding. Train 1 (eastbound) pulls into the siding, cutting off the excess train on the main line. Once train 1 is fully in the siding and both switches are re-lined to the main line, train 2 (westbound) pulls up, couples onto the excess cars with the front of its locomotives and pushes the excess cars further west, while dragging its train behind. Once Train 2 is clear of the east switch of the siding, the portion of train 1 that is in the siding can pull out and proceed perhaps a mile further east on the main. Then Train 2 has to back up clear of the siding, then shoves the excess cars from train 1 into the siding. Once the switch is lined back for the main, train 2 can depart west. Train 1 still has to back up and pick up it rear cars, which train left in the siding. Then it can depart east.

I believe the mathematical train length limitations of double saw-bys is twice the distance of the siding.