Some of you have been following my posts in the Diner about scratchbuilding a somewhat unusual rotary snow plough. This is the plough:
The idea of building the plough was put in my mind by Brent who added a picture of it to one of his posts in mid January. I have built many different snow removal mechanisms and Brent’s picture really caught my fancy. I will admit to not having done much modelling over the past few months. Hopefully Brent’s snow plough will be the kick in the butt that I needed to get back to modelling again.
Here are a few other pictures of the plough, including one with some interesting information:
Bear supplied this picture of a more typical rotary plough from the same era. The diagram provides some insight into how the side discharge plough may have been powered. Somewhere in the documentation that I have read it was suggested that the plough may have had twin ‘engines’ but I suspect given the time frame (1901) that they may have meant twin ‘cylinders’ since fitting two complete steam engines side by side in the available space doesn’t seem to be a practible solution:
I am bidding on an old time 4-4-0 with a similar shaped boiler to see if it will fit. If not, I will scratchbuild a boiler. The 4-4-0 comes with a tender that would fit the era too.
I have done a couple of sketches to work out the proportions. I am basing the underframe on a 36’ box car. I have an Accurail 36’ car on order. Here is the side view as it currently sits:
Gidday Dave, I hope viewers of this thread come up with different views of the plough, especially the tender end.
However, IMO those shots of the rear, especially in the case of snow ploughs, aren’t “sexy” and while not ideal, there are in this video, a couple of glimpses of the footplate and firebox.
Dave, your first mistake was letting yourself be influenced by Brent. That will always cost you time and money. [(-D]
Your second mistake was choosing such a complicated scratchbuild project to re-enter the hobby after your unforced layoff. [:O]
Are you intending to build the standard version of the rotary snow plow or the side discharge version? Most of the Google Images show the standard rotary snow plow which seems like a bit easier to scratch build.
Whatever you do, I hope you make the rotary snow plow operable! Good luck.
Dosn’t look too hard to scratchbuild unless you need evey rivit in place as you could start with a kit from the likes of Northeastern or others that would give you everything except for the special blades, beleive the plow part could be modified from the included to one that can hold the new blade, almost looks like that is how it was built in the first place.
Yet when you make a statement like, “I seen the out-of-control car (plow) through the snow bank”, it’s spelt like this Dick[:|]
The out-of-control car does the same thing as the snow (plough) as it plowed threw the snow bank but it’s spelt like that, even when it ain’t evan spelled right.
The Canadians have a different colour of spelling up there I gathered when I lived on the border.
Although I never completely understood why you trade the A for an E when you flip the box car eh. [:-^]
I went up to visit my friends a few years ago having this conversation when we were all ploughed and I don’t think we ever got it all figured out[:^)]
I think you drop the (ugh) and add (w) or something[(-D][(-D][(-D]
What, exactly, is a “plough”? How do you pronounce that, plo-ugh?
Why do we need to use extra letters in a word when spelling is hard enough?
Yet when you make a statement like, “I seen the out-of-control car (plow) through the snow bank”, it’s spelt like this Dick
The out-of-control car does the same thing as the snow (plough) as it plowed threw the snow bank but it’s spelt like that, even when it ain’t evan spelled right.
The Canadians have a different colour of spelling up there I gathered when I lived on the border.
Although I never completely understood why you trade the A for an E when you flip the box car eh.
I went up to visit my friends a few years ago having this conversation when we were all ploughed and I don’t think we ever got it all figured out
The impellers were driven by the then-new Morse silent roller chain, probably with multiple widths (see the final drive on a McKeen car and beef it up).
You can probably improve on the drive by using a Weller tensioner to absorb the (considerable!) shock force that the description implies; in theory, the steam engine driving it was underpowered for it not to penetrate drifts but for the rotating inertia to give the ~50yd penetration with chunks too hard for shovels to break up…
Since the drive is transverse, the engine(s) will be, too. There is no angle drive, no expensive gears, and any reduction is easily handled with chain sprockets on heavy countershafts.
If I were designing this I would build the engine as a steeple compound, with cylinders inline like the Willans engine in the Heilmann locomotives, perhaps with clutches and drives at both ends to the countershaft that drives the impellers. That will balance torsion loads on the (expensive) engine crankshaft…
You might also build the engine symmetrical around a center pinion, like the old Honda F1 engine, which decreases the torsional load on the crank; you might make this a V-2 or Heisler-like V4 on either side.
The thing apparently missing from the design is the ability to throw the cleared snow long distances in a fine ‘coherent’ stream, as in plowing double track or where stations or yard tracks are adjacent. The Boss Sno-Flyr design was supposed to be adept at this…
And why bother with that silly spelling of the word? I believe the company was from Ontario, and it says right there on the side of the thing that it is the IDEAL SNOW PLOW CO. I somehow doubt they were just saving a little paint by using that spelling…
Do you realize how long I have been trolling Dave over in the diner? Throwing out photo after photo waiting for him to bite. The cost of rum and Pepsi alone was horrendous while I waited and waited. Then WHAMO! I hooked’ em and when he ordered his first parts I had him in the boat. [(-D][oX)][swg]
I am looking forward to watching this project chug along.[Y]
Brent, I don’t know what came over me in that moment when I posted that slur. As I think about the amount of time that you have spent trolling Dave in the Diner, I now realize the error of my ways. You’re right. Let Dave labor away on this project.
Hi guys, Thanks for all the answers and suggestions.
Rich:
I am definitely doing the side discharge blade model. I already have a couple of the more common rotary ploughs with the big blade in front. One is an Athearn BB kit which is waiting to have the drive motor installed, and the other is an old Roundhouse 3 in 1 kit which is currently unpowered.
The plough itself won’t be difficult to build but the blades may be a challenge. I’m going to use brass and copper. I already have the brass sheet and I bought a couple of copper pipe fittings which will be used as the impeller drums. I have some six spoke RC car tires on the way that I might be able to use for the spokes although I suspect they will be too large.
The blades will be driven by a motor connected to a worm with the worm gear on the blade shaft, much like a power truck. I had a suitable worm on hand and I ordered a 10 tooth worm gear as well as the bushings and shafts from NWSL. I wanted the smallest worm gear available so the blades would spin faster without having to rev the heck out of the motor.
RRebell:
I’m using an Accurail 36’ double sheathed box car as the donor for the floor, doors and the roof. My reasoning for the 36’ car was that 40’ cars would not have been that common in 1901 when the plough was built.
Overmod:
Thanks for the info on the drive system and motor styles. Most of the terms are foreign to me so I will have to do some research. Space limitations will probably mean that I can only model a semblance of the twin engines. Hopefully I can hide the electric motor under the model motors. The idea of using an actual chain drive rather intimidates me so I’m going to stick with something that I have a better understanding of and that I know how to adjust.
Bear:
Thanks for the video. I may have to use some artistic license when it comes to the back of the plough.
I agree Dave: no matter who’s speaking it, it is the English language, and I generally try to spell those words in English.
Some Americanisms elide double consonants simply to save time and ink (or typing), which is quite understandable, given the rift which occurred well over two hundred years ago.
The only one which really bugs me is the pronunciation of the letter “Z” as zee, a Dutch or German word for “sea”. To me it sounds more like a lazy version of “C”, easily confused and without the oomph of zed. A Zee26 Camaro is like a kid’s lawn mower, compared to a Zed28 tank, which has heft.
In all fairness, though, I think that Zee came about solely because it helped folks complete the rhyme in the ABC song.
I’m inclined to agree with you. The photos of the original show a longer rear end. I was originally going by the normal truck positions on an early box car where there isn’t a lot of overhang beyond the trucks, but the pictures don’t lie and your suggested ratio of 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 makes sense. I’m not going to use the side walls of the 36’ donor car because they aren’t tall enough, so it will be easy to adjust the length.
I have spent some time looking at some of the engine configurations that you have suggested, and I am interested in coming up with something that would mimic their appearance. Would you be willing to make a few more suggestions?
First, my understanding of the engine configurations is still vague at best. Is this the type of engine style that you are referring to? (I realize that this is a much smaller version than would have been used in the plough):
If so, where does the steam come from? I’m guessing that there must be a separate boiler which is not shown in the picture. If so, can you suggest what it might have looked like?
I’m also assuming that the increased height of the plough body was a result of the height of the engines. Is that a reasonable supposition?
I appreciate the input that you have given me already and I hope that you will be kind enough to answer any of the questions above, or offer more suggestions.
This is a steam motor (so called because it has its own crankshaft, bedplate, etc. as installed). Just like a normal locomotive ‘engine’ (and the side elevation of the rotary) it uses steam generated in a boiler, admitted by a throttle, to run.
The ‘steeple’ feature is that multiple ‘compound’ cylinder sizes are mounted on the same piston rod, vertically to ‘save floor space’. Steam expands to do work in the smallest, then passes through appropriate receiver piping to the middle, thence to the largest. The mass of all the pistons and rod is counterbalanced at the crankshaft and therefore this design is often referred to as a ‘high-speed engine’ (you will find technical material on its detail design and construction as ‘steeple compound’ or ‘Willans’)
You will want a clutch in the arrangement for the same reason the Franklin ‘reversible’ booster provided one: so the engine can be idled to warm it up and lubricate the cylinders properly without having to drive the substantial load. “Ideally” (see what I did there?) this would learn from the McKeen car, and have some sort of slippable drive to get the rotors up to speed, a spring coupling (or ‘feder’ or quill drive arrangement) to cushion driveline shock when the rotors hit ice or rocks, and a Maybach or self-engaging dog clutch that can be thrown in when the rotors are up to speed.
As I recall, there is a valve for each piston, also stacked on a common drive rod, although I don’t remember if there is any manifolding that crosses steam from HP to LP in different cylinders, as in the complex porting in the valve of a Vauclain Compound. The Willans engine in the original Heilmann locomotive had six steeples inline, for good running balance, with triple expansion; to get reasonable cylinder size for actu
There appears to be two engines on either side of the boiler plus I see evidence of a brake band centrally located on the main shaft. While not specifically mentioned in the operating instructions it is quite possible that one engine is used for C.W. running and the other for C.C.W. operation of the wheel?
This one has a pair of three-cylinder “Shay” engines:
