Hi everybody! I recently learned of the existence of the Mastodon type locomotives and thought “oooh shiny and different!” I’d like to have one for my freelance (n scale) railroad in the development stages, but no one makes one, so I’d have to kitbash and/or scratchbuild one. This would be my first loco project, so I’m a bit out of my depth. Any ideas of where to start? I know bachmann makes a nice consolidation that I could probably swap the truck out on…
I thought a “Mastadon” was a 4-10-0, and the 4-8-0 was a “Twelve Wheeler”. There was only one 4-10-0 that ran in the United States.
I thiink the most famous model Mastadon 4-10-0 is GORRE AND DAPHITED #34.
I plan to build an HO scale Mastadon using the Westside Models “brute” 2-10-0 as a starting point. I want to start with this model mainly because of the smallish drivers and the booster engine on the tender. It might capture the overall feel of John Allen’s locomotive even if it is one dome short.
I would think a USRA 2-10-2 could also be used as a starting point. I don’t know what has been made lately in N scale.
-Kevin
Nothin’ like jumpin’ in at the deep end.
To have a useable four-wheel lead truck, you’d likely have to extend the frame (not that big of a deal) so that its lead axle would be ahead of the cylinders, and the rear axle behind the cylinders. Otherwise, it won’t have room to pivot on curves and turnouts.
That, obviously, would mean that the cylinders would need to be moved forward, too, necessitating the valve gear moving with it, and the main rods for the drivers being lengthened.
If you can manage that, the rest should be easy.
Wayne
I guess another option would be to start with a 2-12-0 and remove the front driver set and shorten the side rods.
That might be easier.
Looking for 2-12-0 models right now…
Well, that was a failure. It seems the only 2-12-0 locomotives are of German prototypes.
-Kevin
The Monon had a couple of groups of 4-8-0 locos. Numbered 200 to 221, unfortunately the Monon was one of those rather unique railroads that is kind of hard to model because of the limited number of special designs it operated. In HO, you might be able to find some brass, but you’re on your own in N AFAIK.
You could avoid the modifications which I mentioned in my earlier post by buying Bachmann’s Mountain, and getting rid of the trailing truck.
The only modifications needed would be cosmetic - shorten the boiler so that the firebox could be over the rear drivers and the cab could be moved closer to the drivers, then redo any details that you wish to change.
It might look a bit ungainly, which, in my opinion, suits the Mastodon-type, which were 4-8-0s.
Wayne
I found this on Wikipedia.
Then I found this other chart that says a 4-8-0 is a Mastadon, and I can’t read what it says for a 4-10-0, but it looks like “Gubernader”.
Now I know less than before I looked into it.
-Kevin
I have always been fascinated with the wheel configurations on steam locomotives and the nicknames given to them.
As far as I can tell, the 4-8-0 was called the Mastodon or, synonymously, the Twelve Wheeler.
The 4-10-0 was called the El Gobernador or, synonymously, the Super Mastodon. Apparently, only one 4-10-0 was actually operated in the United States.
Rich
Just to add to the confusion - here is what Wikipedia knows about the 4-10-0 “El Gobernador” [}:)]
El Gobernador was a 4-10-0 steam locomotive built by Central Pacific Railroad at the railroad’s Sacramento, California shops. It was the last of Central Pacific’s locomotives to receive an official name and was also the only locomotive of this wheel arrangement to operate on United States rails. At the time it was built, El Gobernador was the largest railroad locomotive in the world. Its name is reminiscent of the railroad’s first locomotive, Gov. Stanford, as El Gobernador is Spanish for The Governor. This locomotive is sometimes mistakenly referred to as a “Mastodon” type. However, this was the unofficial name for an earlier engine, No. 229, the first successful 4-8-0 ever built. Both engines looked nearly identical, except that El Gobernador was longer and had an additional pair of drivers.
Kevin,Make life easy and start with a Bachmann 2-10-0? While that’s your brass engine I would think twice about using it since its a fine looking engine-IIRC the photo you posted of it correctly. In fact it inspired me enough to think about buying one and a coal tender for my United Santa Fe 2-8-0.
There is also the ‘line of descent’ that has the 4-8-0 the analogue of a shallow- or narrow-firebox 4-6-2 with another driver pair in place of the trailing truck – the same relationship a 4-6-0 bears to a 4-4-2.
By far the most famous 4-8-0s in the world were in fact made this way, by Chapelon in France, and if you were interested in an unusual but highly adaptable version of the locomotive, you should study how that was done, and the reasons for it. Note that these comprise a canonical example why a narrow-firebox engine is not necessarily ‘obsolescent’ in the modern era. I believe there are a number of models of these, and while it would probably require a considerable amount of detaiing and scratchbuilding to ‘Americanize’ one, it might be an interesting thing to tinker with.
The usual high-speed-stability provisions of pushing the tender truck as far forward on the tender as possible, and carefully coupling the rear of the chassis through to the tender frame via a good radial buffer, would apply here ‘in real life’ even though they can be a pain to model if the geometry is not laid out very carefully.
Here’s one!
N&W called them Class M. There was a thread on the historical society’s email list about the name “Mastadon” a while back and the consensus was that the N&W never called them that.
You can take a ride behind one at Strasburg, PA where they have preserved #475.
Other brass models of the M have been made and they pop up for sale somewhat regularly.
If the rolling stock was available, I’d be modeling a pre-WWI N&W with the M as my biggest locomotive.
The N&W actually had 3 different classes of 4-8-0’s in classes M, M-1 and M-2 with M-2 having subclasses. They were unofficially refered to as “Mollies”. They were originally heavy road power but moved to lesser roles with the arrival of hoards of 2-6-6-2 and 2-8-8-2 classes. N&W skipped over the Mikado 2-8-2 and other wheel arrangements pretty much and concentrated on the 4-8-0 until the Mallets reassigned them.
oldline1
Perhaps the most fascinating of all 4-8-0s is one two-locomotive subclass of N&W M-2: the Automatics. These pioneered the chain-grate firing approach used on the TE-1 turbine, and a great deal of the kind of automation used there: a great deal of ingenuity was expended in making locomotives with the perceived operating economy of a diesel-electric switcher … perhaps entirely too much ingenuity, as you may well agree looking at the design, or the results in practice.
They would certainly make fun prototypes to model, although much of the rationale for them as presumably single-manned (or large-first-generation-road-switcher-competitive) branch power would be nearly impossible at their weight in the ‘union climate’ of those years.
On my HO layout I have a “factory kitbash” that might provide an idea - depending on what’s available in N. Mantua/Tyco for many years made a Rogers 4-6-0 based on Sierra RR #3, the famous movie/TV engine (Petticoat Junction, High Noon, Back to the Future, etc.) Like the real engine, the model had a large space between the second and third drivers. At some point Mantua/Tyco modified the model chassis to squeeze a fourth set of drivers in there, creating a 4-8-0 that used the same body and lead truck etc. as their 4-6-0.
If someone makes a similar 4-6-0 in N scale, it shouldn’t be too hard a kitbash?
Why not try Norfolk&Western’s 4-8-0 M class an expamle is still around at strasburg… its also a Movie star, featured as the Rainbow Sun in Thomas and the Magic Railroad which will be finally reciving its Directors Cut shortly in May of this year, pleanty of footage is around of this loco depending if you’re building a 1940s Layout or 1950s this is probably your go to, I’ve seen photos of older Bachmann 2-8-0s being redone as this class
Woo! This question sat for a while, and I thought no one would get around to it. That’s a good idea, taking the trailing truck off a mountain and shortening it. I’m probably more skilled at shaving things off and having them look good than adding them in. I did find a youtube video that shows one in action made from a bachmann Consolidation; unfortunately the documentation on the process amounts to “check out this photo” and it’s the completed model, done so well that it’s impossible to tell where the cuts and other adjustments were made…
Either way, could someone point me toward some sort of tutorial? Like I said, I’m a bit out of my element here. Ideally, one for lengthening the frame/boiler, and one for shortening it, as I’m liable to try both at some point.
I guess some background information on the project is in order… which I’ll provide if someone could point me to the appropriate place to share it.
Mantua/Tyco had a 4-8-0 kit/RTR version available for years. You can find them on EBay even now. Put an MDC Harriman boiler on it and you’ve got a near dead ringer for an SP TW-8.
Andre.
oops. You wanted N scale. I do remember some bashed a Bachman 2-8-0 into a good resemblance of an SP TW-8, but can’t remember who.
Wrog again. Fellow’s name is Rick Straw and he did an N&W M class 4-8-0.
Here are some project I have in hand for future N scale locomotive kitbash.
First a future 4-10-2 or 2-10-0/2 dont know; it will start from this Minitrix steam locomotive which has a massive boiler in a 2-10-2 arragement; the look of a US mastodont like the GD one is not far.
The cabin and pilot need to changed and modified like domes, real handrails added, some detailled compressors and pump will be added and a Bachmann tender; this will give a full electrical contact locomotives; the motor will be changed with a Kato one and if place permit it with a flywheel; the finished model will be close to a Missabae 2-10-2 brute.
This is the starting model ( this model exist also in HO scale by Roco and Trix)
Here is the HO Roco model
This is the Minitrix model of this locomotive,
My second project is a more little locomotive a 0-8-0 switcher.
Life Like has produced in HO and N scale a magnificient model of this locomotives.
Unfortunately, when Atlas has buy the N scale line of Life Like from Walthers, the tools and parts mold of the 0-8-0 have dissappear, so probably this model will be never produced again in N scale.
I need such locomotives for my yard, I have four 0-8-0 from life like, but I need more.
The starting model is the Kato 9600 N scale japanese locomotive with a 2-8-0 wheel arragement, I will keep only the frame and the motor; this little jewel is recognized has an extraordinary running model like all the Kato locmotives in N scale and in HO; this kitbash was explained years ago in the N track magazine and in the N track steam review; some other Kato japanese models are excellent donor for kibashing fine N scale steam runner.
This Kato frame go easily on a old 0-6-0 US steam boiler from Minitrix; I have a few of these old locomotives in
I think, if I ever start this project, I would use a Bachmann 2-10-0 and remove a set of drivers and change the pilto truck to make it a 4-8-0.
I would also change the domes.
-Kevin