While perusing old store catalogs at this excellent web site: https://christmas.musetechnical.com/
I spotted something highly unusual. Was this pairing for real?
Is there any evidence of Lionel pairing a basic 2-4-2 “scout type” loco with the striped NYC tender from the 221 Dreyfuss style loco?
It’s possible as a “Sears Only” special set. That sheet metal tender with the NYC striping would have been produced in grey and black for the similarly colored 221 Dreyfuss locomotives so it wouldn’t have been a problem mating one with a 2-4-2. Either that or the catalog artist got it wrong.
As a guy with a “Never say never!” attitude my opinion is anything’s possible.
Penny not sure about Lionel but American flyer made special sets for Sears and other department stores.
Chuck
No knowledge, but I suspect that Lionel was still trying to get trains out the door for the market and may have accepted some less-than-usual combinations to make it happen.
I have minimal to no knowledge of Lionel Department Store sets. I can confirm that what was packed in the Gilbert Department Store sets did not always match the published Department Store’s catalog. Also, the contents of a numbered set could vary based on what the factory had on hand.
Here in the U.K. we have some stores selling ‘special edition’ train sets made by model railway manufacturers. Some are genuine bargains. Some are expensive because purchases can only be made at their store.
David
Lionel has a long history of department store specials going back at least to the Macy’s and Montgomery Ward Standard Gauge sets of the teens and the uncataloged sets from the postwar era could fill a phone book. (See the giant book from Project Roar.)
But has anyone ever reported seeing an original 1947 O27 set with this combination? Greenberg’s have anything to say about it?
I will chime in to offer some input based on a section of the Project Roar book on Promotional Outfits. But the short answer is that the book does not provide any evidence to affirm if this Sears set was actually produced how it is shown.
Despite focusing on Lionel promotional outfits from the 1960-1966/67 time period, the book does begin with an overall history of Lionel’s promotional outfits (as well as some mention of Gilbert and Ives), written by Roger Carp. According to that section, it seems that there was a significant gap period between the prewar era, and the mid/late 1950s, where Lionel wasn’t really doing promotional outfits. Lionel was, apparently, supplying outfits to Sears during this time, which had unique set numbers in the Sears catalog. But according to the text in the book, none of these outfits differed in contents or pricing from what Lionel had in their own catalog. Roger Carp’s piece generally sums up that we just plain don’t know much of anything so far, about the Sears sets from this time period, besides what’s shown in the Christmas catalogs. Were they sold in special Sears packaging, or normal Lionel boxes? Did they have the Sears set number, or the Lionel set number? Did Lionel’s number for the set differ from the catalog set? The answers to these question just haven’t surfaced.
Now, looking at the shown sears outfit 79N05961T, it seems to be identical in price and content with set 1431W in the 1947 consumer catalog (and set 79N05960T likewise matches set 1401), with the exception of the decoration on the tender behind the locomotive.
It does make you wonder. Does anyone have an advance catalog for 1947? I’m curious how the set is depicted there, and if it’s similar or identical to the train in the sears catalog.
-El
Just last night I ran across a reference to sets depicted in the sears catalog that showed prototype cars in place of actual production versions. We may be seeing an example here of such a thing, in this case an older piece standing in for the eventual correct piece in order to get the catalog artwork out.
There is a book.
And there were exclusives shown in the Sears catalogs, including a neat 2 train American Flyer set.
To be clear- what Roger Carp writes in the promotional outfit book, is that in the time period from 1946 to 1954, Sears did not offer any Lionel train outfits that differed in substance from outfits shown in Lionel catalogs (nor did any other large mail order retailer). It seems like 1955/56 was around when promotional outfits started appearing again, which were in some way different from anything Lionel catalogued.
Sometimes these were simply unique outfits that contained normal catalog items. Sometimes they were identical to catalog outfits, but with the substitution of an item or two, or the bundling in of accessories and extra track. Sometimes items were included which were only ever distributed via promotional outfits. And sometimes there were outfits which were wholly unique from anything featured in a Lionel catalog.
Based on the pictured equipment on the shown pages, I would guess that all the pictured Lionel outfits are probably from 1957 onwards, within the point in time when Lionel was once again doing promotionals.
It’s specifically that '46-'54 period when there doesn’t appear to be any Lionel promotional outfits. And to be clear again, Lionel promotional outfits. American Flyer and Marx were a different story!!
-El
