I don’t have a shelf layout, but am considering one. Part of my hesitation is the idea that although I might be able to heavily detail a scene, running trains isn’t really running trains on a shelf layout. (At least to me and I’ll explain)
Part of the appeal of model trains for me is watching one go by with a long string of cars behind it. I can’t do that on a shelf layout with a 1x10ft, 2x10ft, size etc. Several track plans I’ve seen have a main line that runs from one end to the other that theoretically could be expanded at some point. Assume expansion isn’t the case and my 2x10 or whatever stays that way for good.
My question is this: Of those of you who have a shelf layout, do you find yourself content with switching cars around and nothing really “going” anywhere? I know you can be creative and have a way of moving cars in/out of the scene, but you get the idea. Is a layout like this something that you enjoy running or is it something you have because of space, etc. and just live with it?
Wondering if those of you that have one were of the same thought process that I am right now. Sort of hesitant because it isn’t what I really want, but yet it IS a layout. To build or not to build?
I have a sectional layout (think MR’s “Beer Line”), and due to space limitations right now, I’m only able to put up half of it, so I essentially have what amounts to a “shelf layout” right now. I know exactly what you are talking about when you say you hesitate to build one, for all the reasons you mentioned. In my particular case, I had to do it out of necessity. If I had my druthers, I’d druther have a continuous run of some sort so I could put a train on cruise control and let it run around the layout in the background.
However, I’ve come to really appreciate smaller engines (read: any 4-axle diesel as opposed to the big, sexy SD70MAC’s that I really dig) and industrial switching action. I think the really important thing for a shelf layout is, like you said, have a way for the train to enter and exit the scene. For many people, this is accomplished by having staging at either end of the layout.
I think if you build a shelf layout and put a little thought into planning it with some good staging, you’ll have a very nice and enjoyable layout. Sure, you can’t run trains in a continuous loop and watch them go by, but it’s a lot better than having no layout.
The long range plans for the mighty “F&A Ry.” are to have a loop at both ends of a long run of only 18 inches deep, of a shelf around most of a room, at chin height…as I certainly DO want to see a long freight crawl past where I’ll be sitting on a nice comfy stool…this being the reason I have ONE side of all my equipment heavily weathered, the other side NOT (I doubt if it will FOOL anyone into thinking its a different train, coming the other direction, and it’ll be just ME 99% of the time, anyway…but, you know.)
Making the assumption that you are in H0 scale, since you don’t say anything about your scale - a long train (totally arbitrarily defined by me as an engine + 20 40’ cars) would in H0 scale take about 8 feet of line just to stand stil …
If continuous running (or at least longish runs) is one of your requirements, your track plan will need to accomodate that requirement in some way - either you do a continous loop of track (on a table that you are looking in on, or on an around the walls shelf that you are looking out at), or you have some kind of dog-bond track plan which is narrow (perhaps even just a single line) at the center, with turnaround loops at the ends.
Going down in scale also makes for longer runs in a given amount of space - going N scale (1:160) instead of H0 scale (1:87.1) makes things look about 1.8 times as long, going Z scale (1:220) instead of H0 scale makes things look about 2.5 times as long, while taking down the amount of space you need for a turnback curve of reasonable radius - it is doable to do turnback curve in 24" x 24" (2 x 2 feet) of depth for N scale, while you need 40+" (~4x4 feet) for a turnback curve in H0 scale.
An N scale train of 20 cars will take up about 4 1/2 feet of length. An N scale model can in 10x2 feet have 2 feet on either end taken up by turnback curves (which would have a circumference of PI * diameter = 3.14 * 2 = about 6 feet - long enough for a 20 car train) and still have 10 - 2 -2 = 6 feet of run space space between the turnback curves.
Clear back in 1980, I built a 15 x 96 inch, “Colliery at the end of the railroad,” module. It had, and has, a very specific place in my master plan and is not intended to have any kind of continuous run connection. Since that time, I have operated it alone when its departure end wasn’t connected to more substantial layouts. When I build out to the point where it belongs, it will take its place as the far end of the private railway that interchanges with the JNR at Tomikawa. At present, it connects to the main layout by. ‘cassette car ferry.’
I found operating it as an independent entity satisfying in spite of the lack of continuous running and the necessarily short trains, but that’s because I’m very comfortable with my overall design concept. The fact that 2/3 of my passenger schedules are protected by a 4-wheel diesel railbus doesn’t disturb me, nor does the roster of superannuated tank locos that handle freight. Due to the designed curves of that coal-hauler, even the smallest JNR locos will be embargoed. As for standard-length passenger cars and humongous container flats, fuhgeddaboudit.
For almost half a century I collected rolling stock against the day when I would be able to build the dream layout. That day finally dawned - after military retirement, civilian retirement and a final move 2/3rds of the way across the continent.
The moral? Patience, grasshopper. If all you have room for is a shelf, build it - but design it in a way that will let you include it in your dream layout with little or no modification.
Unless you have a large space like a full basement, attic, or 2 car garage it is hard to put long trains into 11’ x 11’ spare bedroom with out the train chasing its tail or going through the same scene more than once. On a shelf layout ( point to point) it is more like a section of a real railroad & with some staging tracks at each end you can have locals & run through trains. Unless you want continuous running around & around I think you can get plenty of enjoyment in a shelf layout.
My Port Destiny Terminal RR is a 2 ft X 10 ft Shelf layout , I too would prefer running long trains but space is short on supply , so I have staging on one end which allows me to run multiple trains in both directions and since I am a lone operator I can really only run 1 train at a time anyway . I made my staging yard removeable and I can store it under the layout when not in use , you could add staging at both ends as well . Someday I hope to add this layout to a bigger system .
Overall I am very happy with the layout , a smaller layout has given me the time to focus on detail and operations . And like you said it is a layout , which is always better than no layout .
Many recent articles on layout have included a “givens & druthers” list. The terrors of reality usually involve some realization of just how much space we can allot to a layout.
In my earlier basement (HO) layout, I enjoyed having a train run around the layout continiously while I was working on something at the workbench. It was pleasant to look over and watch the train roll by. With retirement and a move to a smaller house, there was no basement and the “train room” also has to be servicable as an extra bedroom. I took the doors off of the closet along one wall, and the shelf layout is along two walls and then into that closet - 2’ deep. To keep the other functions of the room, and to meet my “druther” of no duck-under or oddly engineered swing bridge, I could not create a continuous run layout.
With a smaller layout and fewer opportunities for complexities and grades, tracklaying went smoothly. I am now in a very enjoyable position where I can operate trains at any time over the whole layout or I can work on scenery, detailing, or structures as the mood strikes. (In that the layout is smaller than before, I have quite a bit of rolling stock that won’t fit on the shelf. I was able to select the “best” for use.) The trackplan includes a coal mine and a powerhouse on opposite sides of a view block, so I always have justification for “loads out/empties in” operation at the coal mine. Even the larger layout was a “could-have-been shortline in SW Virginia in the WWI era”, so short trains seem appropriate.
I suggest looking at Don Spiro’s articles “A New Layout” in Railroad Model Craftsman beginning in September 2005. This was a 4-part series: Sept., Oct., Nov. & Dec., 2005. I followed many of those design and construction ideas and it worked well for me.
My advice would be to start building. Even if you won’t be running long trains, you’ll be running trains, and to me that’s fun no matter how large the layout.
Cuda Ken has a good point; you can build a shelf layout and expand it later into an around-the-room layout. The opposite side can be either another town or staging. Tomkat makes a good point also. It’s difficult to model mainline operations accurately in almost any scale unless you have an enormous basement, and even then you have to make a lot of compromises. It gets easier if you model a single town and let the long trains run through, but even then you have challenges. Prototype passing sidings, for example, tend to be longer than most modelers have space for if modeled in scale.
Shelf layouts can be enormous fun, especially if you use cassettes or some other type of staging so that your traffic moves on and off the layout. Give one a try. If you don’t like it you can always build something else, but I think you’ll like it.
Are we talking about “shelf layouts” or “switching layouts?” I can see where train lengths can be limited on a switching layout (since they are usually smaller), but don’t know how a shelf layout would affect train lengths. I am building an N-scale shelf layout in a 19x9 room and will have about 132’ of mainline, or just about 4 scale miles. Jamie
My question is this: Of those of you who have a shelf layout, do you find yourself content with switching cars around and nothing really “going” anywhere?
Absolutely! I perfer switching industries,working a yard or passenger terminal then running trains…
Let me explain.
At one club I sign up for a yard job,passenger terminal,local freight or dispatcher during operation and open houses.
At the other club boredom sets in after the first few laps my train makes of a 6-7 hour “shift”…The rest of the time I am sitting at the table talking and doing the routine security observations as my train continues running lap after lap after lap…Yes,I don’t need to monitor my train other then glancing into one of the mirrors from time to time…That’s the prize I keep my eyes on–derailment free operation.
Now then …
And I will be quite frank…
Ok then…
Is a switching layout for everybody?
No and by reading your post it is my opinion a ISL not for you.
Why?
Again By your post I get the impression you don’t understand how a ISL works and the staging of the train before operations since one doesn’t simply “move cars around” but follows every day railroad operation by using Car Cards/Waybills and IF you are not into switching then again a ISL isn’t your calling.
My advice try membership in a club(if any) or consider N Scale so you can run those long freight drags.
My layout could be described as a shelf layout. I have 130 feet of walls allocated to the layout plus I can have extensions into the room. So far, it is 80 feet long including going around corners. The room is 64 feet long.
The width of the tables varies, but generally I try to keep it at two feet. My layout is a long way from being “done”, but I certainly have enjoyed operations as I build the layout.
My track plan is bascially a double track mainline. Eventually, it will have a loop at each end, and that will allow continuous running.
I started with a ten foot section. I built the entire section including scenery before moving on the the next section. I simply do not like operating trains on just boards and track. I have to have scenery.
Construction is “domino” type sectional construction. That way, the layout could be moved if needed, but I would not say it is portable at all. I chose that kind of construction, because I have move many times during my life, and have destroyed previous layouts becasue of that. I do not want to destroy another layout.
Presently, I have sections connected end-to-end with a length of over 80 feet with scenery. I have several industries to serve, and I enjoy switching operations. There is a branch line into my steel mill that is a penensula away from the walls. Part of the layout is two level with tracks “hidden” underneath the main level.
Now, I am building an extension that will include the first of my loops.
My suggestion is to definitely build your shelf RR but perhaps also try to join a local club. A modular club would be ideal since you could probably integrate your shelf RR with the club. Then, you will have the options of participating in both worlds. Since you live in Columbus, there probably are a few such clubs in your area. I have done this here in Memphis . This allows me to model SP in 1910 at home and SP in the 1950’s at the club where I can run my cab forwards and long PFE reefer blocks. Peter Smith, Memphis
Stein, that’s a nice little track plan you’ve got there! Did you make that up yourself, or did you get it from somewhere else? I’m gonna have to copy that and use it as a starting point for a future room-sized layout (we’re always designing that future layout, aren’t we? [;)])
My shelf layout was built averaging 14 inches to 18 wide and constructed in 5 foot sections so it can be moved and expanded somday. LA&SF RR Layout in a PDF format
(186KB), from the 2006 Kalmbach’s, Great Model Railroads. I used a very simple construction method and have daily fun operating it. Bruce Petty
It has the overall feel of what I’d be comfortable with. Again, it’s up to me but IF this is something I did, I’m wondering if it would bore me and not be worth the effort. Dunno
Yeah I know guys…“Well why did you ask us then?” [(-D]
I currently have a 2’x14’ shelf layout in HO and I have a lot of fun with it. Just running a train doesn’t do it for me; I belong to a club which is mostly “circle burning” which got old very quickly. My layout at home is an inner-city switching layout which will be expanded later. I get cars on and off the layout via cassette staging at one end. Even when phase two is complete (2x20 along one wall), I still plan on using cassettes at interchanges even though I will have lower-level staging. It keeps the same cars in the same order from showing up on the layout. So my freight cars do have a “place to go” just like on the prototype. I still get my running long trains “fix” by operating on the club layout. You may want to consider joining a club that would have long runs for long trains and then build a smaller layout at home which you could run trains on when you can’t run trains at the club.
In the end, having fun is all that matters. If you are dead set on having long trains running on a mainline in only 10 or 12 feet, you may need to look at N or Z scale to get what you want. I’m thinking Z scale would give you the most running for the amount of space you have.
It is a well done layout, but there are a couple of small changes that would make it more engaging to operate that I discussed in that thread. I won’t repeat the rationale (you can read it on the earlier thread), but here’s the slightly revised track plan
There are countless threads on this forum where people are asking questions only they can answer.
Is it a switching layout or no layout at all? Seems like a no-brainer. Even if you decide you are not happy with it in the long term, you will have gained valuable skills and experience. If you look at Jonathan Jones’ article on this layout, which was a prize winner published in the May 2001 Model Railroader, you’ll see that a layout like this can have great modeling and be very appealing. Build the benchwork in sections, as he did, and you can even use it as part of a larger layout someday. (Although I believe he is building a new layout now, but in N scale this time).
