I want to add a passenger car train to my 1950s layout but I know the models of the 85’ stramlined cars require a 24" mimium radius turn and mine are all right at 22" (I have some old IHC Heavyweights and they are really too long). Con-Cor makes a 72’ version that I like but I know they would require a lot of work and money (add interiors, lights, probably change couplers) to make them like, and probably the same cost as, the Walthers cars I like best. All of the Walthers cars carry the “24” mim radius required" qualification but I am lead to believe that some of the Walthers cars are shorter than the 85 scale feet and will work on my layout. My problem is I don’t know how to tell and there is no LHS around that has any that I can look at. Can someone help me or direct me to a source where I can find out the actual length (either is scale feet or real inches) of the Walthers Pullman Standard, Pullman Heavyweight, etc? I’m fairly sure that a 64 seat coach is longer than a 46 seat coach but my knowledge of old time passenger cars is VERY limited.
Walther’s cars are full, healthy, wonderful 85’ (with the exception of a few Baggage or RPO cars).
You have 2 options:
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Broaden your curves and enjoy the wonderful world of Walther’s passenger cars…OR…
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Buy cars that are meant for sharper curves (Athearn, IHC, Rivarossi…etc) and spend alot of time and money to get them upto Walther’s standards.
David B
These what yer lookin for?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=140251544952
I have several sets of these 60’ Heavyweight coaches and once you have replaced the coupler with a kadee you have a great set of coaches.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/635-600229
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/931-50
If you search around the coaches are available in a number of roadnames. There is also a lighting kit available for the 60’ coaches. The same 60’ coaches were also available in the Walthers Trainline Passenger set a Walthers diesel PA and three different coaches.
These coaches have also been re-released by Hornby/Rivarossi and are currently being sold in sets of three coaches and there is a baggage available as well, roadnames are limited to only a couple.
Dave,
You are quite corect about the Walthers full length heavyweight and lightweight passenger cars. They will track around a 24" radius curve, but not with any reliability. Some of the baggage cars and mail cars are shorter(60-70’). Walthers also has marketed the Rivarossi 60’ heavyweight cars(these are C&NW prototypes).
The Con-Cor 72’ cars are shortened versions of C&NW ‘400’ cars for the most part. I have some and they run very well on 22" radius curves. I had to weight them, add interiors, add diaphrams, and body mount Kadee couplers. Their trucks are very good and have metal wheels. My next ‘upgrade’ for them is add Rapido ‘Easy Peasy’ lighting kits. The paint jobs(I have C&NW) are very good. They are a good ‘project’ that most modelers can do…
Jim Bernier
Rapido cars will negotiate 18" curves with the longer couplers (included) - but they are 85’ers and will not look that good. My [2c]
Thanks for all the good advise. My real favorite is still the Con-Cor Santa Fe Scout cars so I will probably go that way and upgrade them. I can’t find any specific interiors or lighting sets for the Con-Cor cars so what do you recommend for this application? Also, what’s a good diaphram set and which Kadee couplers?
Palace Car Company makes several interior sets designed for Con-Cor 72’ cars (and the 85’ ones too)…
BTW the “problem” with Walthers cars is the body-mounted couplers won’t allow them to be used on tight curves, in my experience even their 60’ cars won’t work on 22" radius curves. Rivarossi 80’ cars with truck mounted couplers will work with no trouble however (even if they don’t look great doing it!).
Folks:
Just to be weird, not because I have any experience with them, I want to point out that Herkimer is still making their extruded-aluminum streamliners, which are still available in shorty form:
http://www.okengines.com/catalogrequest.shtml
http://www.okengines.com/pdf/catalog1.pdf
http://www.okengines.com/pdf/catalog2.pdf
Anybody here know anything about these cars? They’re out of my era, so I don’t really have a use for any.
I have 22" curves, Walthers, Rivarossi and Soho full length cars, all with Walthers trucks. They do just fine with longer couplers, and a little more weight on the Walthers cars. I add the weight on the trucks themselves using sheet lead. They even make it around my 4% down grade. I also have the Walthers trucks pretty loose, and I lightened the springs on the Sohos.
DC
I have a few 1960s vintage Herkimer / OK Streamilner shorty coaches. They are extruded aluminum, very basic with no interiors, frosted acetate windows. They were set up to add lighting with A GOW bulb. I have not seen the new ones, and a lot has chenged since the ones I have were manufactured.
Generally it was more a difference in leg room than car length. Heavyweight coaches usually held 80 people in stiff straight-backed chairs with no leg rests. As streamliners came in, it became more common to have reclining seats and leg rests, but since these seats took up more space it reduced the number of seats you could fit in the coach…in fact, a streamlined 46 seat coach was probably 80’ long was were most streamlined cars; some 80 seat heavyweight coaches were only 70’ long.
BTW if you’re looking for Budd type shorties, don’t overlook the Athearn cars. They can be a little hard to find sometimes but they look pretty good, are easy to assemble, and run well. Palace Car Co. makes interiors for them too.
Note that Walthers was packaging the 60’ Rivarossi cars with their train set which included 22" radius track. I have one line that has 18" curves on it and the cars track fine, but the 22" looks better.
I wonder if anybody has tried putting truck mounted couplers on the Walthers cars using the Kadee talgo conversion kits? I think all of their oher truck mounted couplers are just on 4 wheel trucks.
I have two sets of the Rivarossi. They are nice. In fact Don turned me on to them.
I AM looking for a 4 car set of "Heavyweight/Celestory roofed Great Northern (Orange and Green) Empire Builder 60’ set/Rivarossi if anyone should “trip” over one and wouldn’t mind PMing me? I hava an ebay watch list going but never know what else is out there. Also UP but I’m not sure they ever had yellow and gray heavyweights(?) with the celestroy roofs. I’m not into the Harriman look so much…
For the OP, I used to run Athearn 72’ers on 18 and 22" radius and they looked “ok” on 22s. A little “imaginative” on 18s. The advantage is that they look great and are inexpensive. $17-ish ea.
Then there are these Life Likes available now:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450676
and/or:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=lpisgr&ID=200450692
they seem to be about 63.5 scale feet long. They come with horn hook couplers.
Just to be really bizzare, I was gonna show you the Walhers car guaranteed to traverse 18" radii, but I can;t find pictures of Oscar and Piker, let alone them for sale.
I finally found some old Athearn 72’ cars at a LHS in Quebec - the web site was in French and English but the ordering page was in French only so I’m a little hesitant to order them since I wouldn’t be real sure what I was paying for.
OMG, they look like the old Mantua extruded aluminium cars. If they have the same talgo trucks, they’ll run on 18 inch radius.
There have been a few 60’ cars scaled down to represent longer versions, from time to time. The culprit is a straight car bi-secting (cutting across) a circle.
The best compromises are 72’ cars with Talgo couplers.
ConCor did make a generic 72’ set (smooth sides) as did Athearn (with corregated sides). Since most engines use body mounted couplers, I would likewise use body moUnts for the lead car.
I take it you found a source for the Concor. The ‘Valley Flyer’ paint scheme never existed in real life. The Athearn cars are much closer to those used by the Santa Fe.
EVERYTHING works better than the IHC cars.
Tom: Those 60’ shorties ‘Galaxy’ posted were from the old ‘Penn line’. I still have two. The Mantua extruded aliminums were 72 footers, later were reproduced in (ugh!) plastic.