Show finds from early December

[El_Fixes_Things]

Picked a bunch of stuff up at the Albany Great Train Extravaganza back in December. Main purchases were some very troubled MPC steam engines, a Williams Reproductions Trainmaster, and a set of 4 Postwar 2500 cars and a Williams baggage. Note the Williams stuff is pre-Bachmann.

Things are mostly salvagable, but unfortunately the one thing I didn’t account for were the armatures on the N&W J 8100 and the UP 8002. The worm wasn’t really protected from moisture and got chewed up by rust. And I can’t seem to find anybody who’s got a replacement 8002-125 armature. Yeah, I’ve tried all the usual suspects, believe me.

The most promising at the moment is looking like the Trainmaster, funny enough. It may just run again. I honestly thought it was the least likely to be fixable based on its condition.

I figured I’d show people a little of what I’m up to, just so folks know I’m still alive and playing with trains. But I have found another forum that I think I generally like better than this one, and I’m more active there. The ‘rewards program’ for posting here isn’t going to change that for me.

-El

[Flintlock76]

Ellie, if anyone can raise the dead it’s you! As far as those MPC motors and gears are concerned the only thing I’d advise is keep your eyes open at shows for what the parts dealers have and maybe what’s in the junk boxes.
But I’m sure you’ve guessed that already!

[El_Fixes_Things]

Thanks Wayne.

Rest assured, keeping my eyes out as ever. I’m currently looking into the possibility of taking up the Lathe, and figuring out how to machine a new armature shaft. The major issue I see at the moment is that I don’t know the tooth profile or thread pitch. I think it’s a triple-start worm, which is probably trickier to do, but I’m hopeful I can find information on how to achieve that.

If anyone just so happened to have a nice engineering drawing of one of these armatures, feel free to drop me a line!

[El_Fixes_Things]

Update to this-
Trainz seems to have uncovered some additional stock of 8002-125 armatures. I’m sure they won’t last long. They’re not exactly a bargain at $22 each, but definitely not a terrible price either. And it sure beats paying $40-60 for an entire secondhand motor.

Anyhow, I just ordered 2 armatures, plus the new smoke unit bracket I need for my 8100. I also ordered an ‘outlaw’ figure for my 3370.

All the other parts I need for my 8100 and 8002, I should be able to get from Jeff Kane. Not sure when I’ll next be working on either loco, but I feel a little better knowing that this major headache is (hopefully) resolved.

-El

[El_Fixes_Things]

Parts arrived today. The armatures have clearly been in some sort of non-climate-controlled storage for a while, as the shafts have some extremely mild surface rust, and the commutator segments are a little oxidized.

There were drops of glue on both commutator faces that I had to carefully scrape off with an Xacto knife blade.

I think they were leftover from manufacture, maybe these were factory seconds? At any rate, I think all that’s needed now is to buff the commutators with a polishing wheel, and use some scotch brite or a brass wire wheel to take the surface rust off the shafts.

I have lagged behind a lot in sharing progress on the projects showcased in this thread, but I did a whole photo-shoot of all three steamers in “before” condition, as well as progress pictures in taking apart the 8100. I need to play catch up!

-El

[El_Fixes_Things]

Picture time!

First up… the 8801 Blue Comet.
This one came with a brand new sound activation button still sealed in its plastic bag, and an original vile of smoke fluid (fluid still inside!).

Yeah… not a pretty sight. here’s some additional views:

Front & back of the engine & tender:

Some top and bottom views to get a little bit of a closer look:

Still have the little sticker for the collector assembly!

So… yeah. Not winning any beauty contests here, to be sure.

-El

[amflyer1]

Was it in a flood, or just laying in water?

Chuck

[El_Fixes_Things]

@amflyer1 I don’t really know the story, but my guess is that they were in a flood. The guy I bought them from had a bunch of stuff with this water damage. I ran into him at the Amherst Ry Society show back in January and supposedly he still has more stuff from this collection. I kinda think I have my hands full here though

-El

[amflyer1]

Looks that way but keep us posted love to see the progress. that is a beautiful engine.

Chuck

[El_Fixes_Things]

Following the events of my previous picture post, I decided I needed to go deeper on the 8801 and see just how bad things were inside. So, out came the screwdriver, and off I went.

The results were a little surprising- as it happened, things looked significantly less dire under the shell. Obviously not sunshine and roses, sure, but it looked promising.

The E-Unit looked pretty good considering what I was starting with, not a lot of really bad rusting. That was one of my biggest concerns. The motor definitely needs some heavy cleaning to get the rust out of it, but I think it’ll recover. The smoke lever looks very crusty.
E-Unit:

Motor:

I removed the tape, and then the brush plate, to get a better look at how the brush plate, brushes, and armature were doing. Not great, but hopefully salvageable.

Smoke Unit:

I also had a look inside the tender. As expected, not pretty. The bad foam is the least of my problems.

I think I can clean the board up ok, doesn’t look like any of the traces are harmed- we shall see.

It may even work after a good scrubbing and replacing the capacitors.

Unfortunately that’s all the pics I got of the 8801 for now. I determined that the only way forward involves some pretty heavy disassembly (including yanking the wheels!) and decided to set it aside. This was all back in December, in the week or two following the show where I got it.

I did give the shell, boiler front, and steam chest/pilot a bath, which somewhat improved them, but not much else has been done to it yet. The engine is a lower priority for me since it’s not as powerful as the others, and requires more work to clean.

Next up will be pictures of the 8002 Union Pacific Berkshire

-El

[amflyer1]

Good luck EI and keep posting .

Chuck

[El_Fixes_Things]

Next up, the 8002 Union Pacific. Part of the ‘Famous American Railroads’ series. Pretty much a 736 Berkshire but with the addition of the ‘Elephant Ear’ smoke deflectors. I don’t think the UP operated Berkshires, presumably Lionel was trying to evoke a 4-8-4.

As you can see, this one isn’t a whole lot prettier looking than the 8801.

The underside looks a smidge less gnarly at first glance.

Now to look individually at the loco and tender.
From the front, you almost don’t notice how rough it is.

A look into the cab from the back doesn’t inspire much joy, however.

Some 3/4 views… in my experience, the white oxidation on diecast parts can sometimes clean up much better than you’d expect it to. Hopefully that’s the case here.

Top view…

…and the underside.

The tender shell looks mostly ok, the chassis less so.

This locomotive was originally going to wait a while before I touched it, but after discovering that the armature shaft in my 8100 was ruined, I decided to open up the 8002 to see if it had a better armature that I could steal. Unfortunately, I found that it was just as bad as the 8100.

The armature shaft was well and truly trashed. I put the shell back on, and set the 8002 back aside. And that’s all that’s happened with it thus far.

-El

[El_Fixes_Things]

And finally, we get to the 8100. This one was and is the top priority of the three. I’ve wanted a Lionel ‘J’ for a while, but could never afford the price of an original 746. Unfortunately, the MPC version, while cheaper, was still generally outside my price range. This one has proven to be a fair bit worse for wear than I’d anticipated, but I still remain hopeful it’ll work out in the end.

I think I’m going to break the pictures up into a couple posts for this one. This is also the engine to which the most progress has been made (some of which hasn’t yet been documented).

-El

[El_Fixes_Things]

Having a look at the engine, things mostly don’t look so bad from the outside. Little did I know!
Frankly I’m not a huge fan of the glossy finish on the engine, though it is a bit more faithful to the lovely shiny appearance of the real 611 than a flat finish would be.

The underside is perhaps a smidge less nasty than the 8002. Perhaps the best of the three, but certainly a ways off from “good”.

The ‘head on’ view from the front isn’t so bad.

But goodness, a look through the back of the cab is a whole different story. You don’t see many motors looking sadder than this.

Exactly how bad the whole motor situation was, would become more apparent later.

-El

[El_Fixes_Things]

Having a look at the tender, again, the shell is largely not too shabby, while the chassis is a bit sorrier. Somewhat of a common theme.

The chassis has some more severe rusting around the water scoop, but elsewhere it’s not quite as bad.

-El

[Flintlock76]

Wow.
I knew there was nothing on TV worth watching today but I never expected a “horror movie” on the Forum!
But I’ve got faith in you Ellie! If there’s anyone who can resurrect those engines it’s got to be you!

[El_Fixes_Things]

@Flintlock76

I knew there was nothing on TV worth watching today but I never expected a “horror movie” on the Forum!

@Flintlock76 maybe I should have waited till Halloween

Remember, these are all old pictures so far- most were taken around 2 months ago. A lot of progress has been made, as a matter of fact, with the 8100, and while there is still much left to do, it’s looking a lot better now than it was in these pictures.

More to come!

-El

[amflyer1]

WOW i’ll say you got your work cut out for you, looking forward to seeing the progress.

Chuck

[Flintlock76]

@El_Fixes_Things

More to come!

Really looking forward to it!

[El_Fixes_Things]

As I eluded to, the 8100 Norfolk & Western J ended up being a fair bit worse off than I had previously thought. This is what greeted me when I removed the shell:

The tender looks about as bad as it did on the 8801 Blue Comet, but I feel much less confident about the speaker being re-usable. And as for the engine… well, it doesn’t look great in there, does it? Especially not that motor…

The E-Unit doesn’t look so bad at first glance- I’ve seen uglier ones. But soon enough I’d find it had serious problems too.

And then there’s the smoke unit. The bracket was completely toast. I honestly have no idea how it got rusted up so badly, but it was beyond saving. The smoke unit itself was salvagable. I unfortunately broke the 2-pin bulb, trying to remove it so I could clean everything. oxidation had jammed the pins into their sockets quite badly.

By sheer luck, Trainz happened to have replacement smoke unit brackets available. I say luck, because this part was never formally carried by Lionel themselves- it was only ever listed as part of the smoke unit assembly, not as a separate part. I would have had to make my own bracket from scratch, it was much more convenient to be able to purchase one for a buck.

Here’s a better shot of the tender.

Hopefully I can save this board, and find a good replacement for the speaker. If possible I’d like to salvage a speaker from a used boombox or electronic toy, rather than buying a new one. Will have to look around and see what I can find at my disposal (or the town dump).

-El